I've bought a mini with plans to use it aboard our Bristol 40, and am wondering if anyone else is looking at using a mini.
So far my idea is just to use the right size MSW inverter for power. The mini will tuck nicely into the shelf space next to the nav station. Also planning to mount an 8-10" monitor (like the Lilliput) on an arm to swing it out of the way into the bookshelf space.
I'd really love to monitor to a sunlight-viewable monitor to the helm, but as far as I can see they are just too pricey so far, especially in the development stages I am in right now. The helm is too far from the companionway to see a swing-out monitor.
None of this will happen till I get to the boat in late July, as it is in Maine, and I am in Switzerland ( ! ) but I'll be able to get everything configured before I arrive at least.
What other ideas and suggestions do folks have?
I'm using the Powerbook Pismo onboard at the moment, but I think I'll buy a Mac Mini when Tiger comes out, although whether or not I'll use it on board is a different question - 27ft's a bit cramped, plus I'd potentially need to buy a second monitor..
If you've got a larger yacht, such as your 40fter, then the Mac Mini's ideal! Run a nice 23" widescreen TFT TV/monitor in the saloon, and a smaller display in the cockpit.. that way you can watch DVDs / TV in the evenings too.
It's worth doing a search on Google for Mac Mini, in-car, as our land-locked cousins are already doing a lot of installations, and have sorted out a lot of the problems / issues with using the Mac Mini over 12v.
[url=http://www.kennettnet.co.uk/astramac/power/]Powering the Mac Mini from a 12v supply
[url=http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46365]Mac Mini in-car user interface
Love to see some photos, once you eventually get your yacht - especially with the Mini installed!
I've seen those sites and by now I have a seriously extensive set of bookmarks for small screens of every variety, so finding one for the nav station isn't a issue. Finding a daylight one for the helm position is; no solution in sight yet.
What I like about the mini is that it wouldn't take up room on the chart table, and I can stow a folding keyboard and mouse easily and quickly.
That 12-->18 vdc site is interesting, but the mini power supply specs out at 18.5 VDC @ 4.5 amps, and that little adapter is 16 VDC @ 4.3. I know a certain amount about electricity and would be leery of it. Also, as this is very much a development project at the moment, I'll just start with an inverter. The no-load current on them is .25 a, and they manage about 85%+ efficiency these days, so I'm happy for starters; I'm sure I'll change my mind later though!
I installed a 13" Sharp LCD on the bulkhead above my nav station (Catalina 42) on a swing out mount. My current thought is to add the Mini with both a wireless mouse and keyboard. That way it can all be put away and or stored when not in use and subjected to salt air as little as possible. The Sharp comes with a power supply that converts to 12v. I had it installed directly to 12v and a breaker on my panel and it works great. For the Mini power supply I am planning on just running through the inverter which is the new Xantrex MS2000 set up to provide clean sine wave power. (according to Xantrex)
takefive880 Wrote:I installed a 13" Sharp LCD on the bulkhead above my nav station (Catalina 42) on a swing out mount. My current thought is to add the Mini with both a wireless mouse and keyboard. That way it can all be put away and or stored when not in use and subjected to salt air as little as possible. The Sharp comes with a power supply that converts to 12v. I had it installed directly to 12v and a breaker on my panel and it works great. For the Mini power supply I am planning on just running through the inverter which is the new Xantrex MS2000 set up to provide clean sine wave power. (according to Xantrex)
I ordered the wireless + Bluetooth combo w/the Mini, but I'm just going to use a USB keyboard and mouse I have around till I see how it goes. But one consideration is to look at Bluetooth for the mouse, as it works up to 30 ft., so you could, if we can ever find affordable daylight screens, use it from the helm position. Those daylight screens shown on GPSNavX have a trackball and click buttons, but Tom McClean tells me he hasn't yet tested them with a Mac, so I am holding my breath......
Wireless input devices that I've tried have irregular results (lost connections, etc.) Do let us know what further developments you try and how they work.
Which swing-out mount did you find?
I have been looking at getting a mini as well, I have yet to see one, but don't they have an external power supply? I have been asking Apple for info on the power supply because if it IS external then a simple DC voltage regulator may be all you need to give it power from your batteries.
There are so many advantages to the mini from my point of view:
You can buy a spare (because they are cheap) for long passages in case it falls over
You can install bluetooth and wifi and simply stash it below a berth where the burglars won't find it
You can buy a DVI video signal splitter (
http://www.cablewholesale.com/catalog/dvisplitter.htm) so that you can have a repeat display on deck.... I vote yes to ReeferJ's poll for a small daylight display, but forget VGA please, make it a DVI display please!
You can enter and display all of your other instruments.
BUT
Is it a simple matter to power it from the DC side of the boat rather than use an inverter? This part really hacks me off because we build computers and have to buy AC to DC power supplies because computers need DC. The notion of using an inverter to create AC from your batteries and then letting the computer turn it back to DC seems potty!
Has anyone got a mac mini and looked at the volts coming out of the external power supply?
Ah, sorry Dan, I didn't see your bit about the power supply..... I would be comfortable using a dc voltage regulator....there is a PC available which depends upon one of these:
http://www.vasari.net/lowvolt.html
Q
The mount I used was OmniMount VESA-75/100-CL Cantilever LCD TV Mount. It works great and is very solid. It can be adjusted with an hex head supplied with it. My nav station is sheltered and far from the weather. I have had good luck with both the mouse and keyboard in my office at home and know I won't get further away using it on the boat. I do wonder whether it will interfere with anything else on board. I have the wireless remote for my Raymarine Autopilot and need to check what freq it runs to determine if I will conflict. The other nice thing about the monitor is the video/audio on it can be plugged into the stereo MP3 monster cable set up to allow us to plug in our iPod and music and play the audio over our salon stereo. This is all great fun getting it to interface the bottom line is just let me go sailing!
Quentin Wrote:Ah, sorry Dan, I didn't see your bit about the power supply..... I would be comfortable using a dc voltage regulator....there is a PC available which depends upon one of these:
http://www.vasari.net/lowvolt.html
Q
Unless I'm mistaken, a DV-DV converter (12 {boat} --> 18 {Mini}) still has to use a DC->AC->DC setup to get its otput: it may be a bit more efficient as all you have to do is chop the DC to get it into the transformer, not convert it to MSW or pure sine-wave 60 hz AC. For the testing stages I am at I'll be happy with an inverter for the moment. A DC regulator assumes you're using a voltage lower than the 12 VDC input, which we're not here.
I was searching for a 12 VDC power supply for the Mac Mini I emailed Powerstream
http://www.powerstream.com and received the following reply...
Our PST-P006-Universal power supply will meet your requirements, your cost for 1 unit is $48.375 each for 1-10 units.
Best regards.
Don Harwell
ginginsman Wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, a DV-DV converter (12 {boat} --> 18 {Mini}) still has to use a DC->AC->DC setup to get its otput: it may be a bit more efficient as all you have to do is chop the DC to get it into the transformer, not convert it to MSW or pure sine-wave 60 hz AC. For the testing stages I am at I'll be happy with an inverter for the moment. A DC regulator assumes you're using a voltage lower than the 12 VDC input, which we're not here.
One worry I have is that we are all basing our plans on what the Mac Mini power supply is delivering.... perhaps we should hold our horses and find out what the Mac Mini itself is expecting/needs in the way of input power spec. I e-mailed Apple a few days ago and have had no answer yet.
Q
Quentin Wrote:ginginsman Wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, a DV-DV converter (12 {boat} --> 18 {Mini}) still has to use a DC->AC->DC setup to get its otput: it may be a bit more efficient as all you have to do is chop the DC to get it into the transformer, not convert it to MSW or pure sine-wave 60 hz AC. For the testing stages I am at I'll be happy with an inverter for the moment. A DC regulator assumes you're using a voltage lower than the 12 VDC input, which we're not here.
One worry I have is that we are all basing our plans on what the Mac Mini power supply is delivering.... perhaps we should hold our horses and find out what the Mac Mini itself is expecting/needs in the way of input power spec. I e-mailed Apple a few days ago and have had no answer yet.
Q
Sorry, but that is strighforward: it expects 18.5 VDC @ 4.5 amps. My worries aren't about getting that part right, they're about making sure the mini doesn't get spikes or voltage drops when the engine is started, for example. Portables are insulated from that by their batteries; a mini is not, so whatever inverter or converter is used needs to provide some protection, unless the internal circuitry of the mini (downstream of its own power supply) provides that, and I don't have any inside contacts at Apple to tell me that. Anyone know an Apple certified techie?
Anonymous Wrote:I was searching for a 12 VDC power supply for the Mac Mini I emailed Powerstream http://www.powerstream.com and received the following reply...
Our PST-P006-Universal power supply will meet your requirements, your cost for 1 unit is $48.375 each for 1-10 units.
Best regards.
Don Harwell
I mailed off a question to them as well, and their reply follows. On our boat, there are two batteries: the engine and house batteries, so I might not worry too much about a voltage drop as long as I don't start the engine using the Both setting on the battery switch, but with one battery I might be nervous. Best thing may just be not to leave the Mac running when you're about to start the engine. At this point, I'm sticking with an DC-->AC inverter for the time being.
Powerstream Wrote:Subject: Re: Web Page Inquiry ADC
To: Dan HINCKLEY <dah@hq.iucn.org>
It is 4.55 amps.
It will not pass spikes, but may drop out if the voltage drops too low.
Best regards
mark
Dan HINCKLEY wrote:
Dear Sirs,
Perhaps I could have a little more info on the
PST-P006-Universal
Input 11 15 Volts
Output Vout 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 21 Volts slide switch selectable
Output Iout 6 Amps to 4.3 Amps depending on voltage selection
What is the amps out at 18 VDC please?
Also, if using this on a boat, for example, is the output stabilized or regulated so that voltage drop on the 12 VDC (on engine cranking, for example) won't cause a spike on the output side?
I'd be using it on a computer (Apple Mac mini [18.5 VDC @ 4.5 A] ) and would be concerned about spikes as I am not sure about how tolerant such machines are of spikes or voltage drops.
GPSNavX Wrote:I have started to put this page together showing all the pieces..
http://www.gpsnavx.com/html/navsolution.html
I will have a 12V power supply soon.
When you look at power supply options, you might want to consider the following too. I found an Apple certified tech, and below is the exchange with him on the topic of inverters, converters, etc. My query is quoted with the ">" marks.
Apple Certified Tech Wrote:I get this question a lot, actually... I would recommend using a good 300-watt inverter (The Mac mini pulls a maximum of 85 watts.) and in between the inverter and the Mac mini power supply a good quality surge protector.
If space allows I would supplant the surge protector for a small uninterruptible power supply (UPS) such as APC's ES series. The UPS doesn't have more than 7-15 minutes of run time, but its electronics will smooth out the sine wave output for you.
I too have thought of a 12v DC to 18v DC converter, but from what I can tell Apple is actually pumping in 3 lines of voltage through their special connector (I can't share the Apple-supplied pictures, but you can get an idea here: http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,12411024 ). The next time I have my hands on one, I'll have to take a voltmeter to it.
Hope that helps.
--
On Apr 29, 2005, at 12:53 AM, Dan Hinckley wrote:
> ------------------------- FEEDBACK -------------------------
>
> I'm looking at using (a mini) on my sailboat (in Maine). There appear to > be two ways to go:
>
> - an inverter: easy, straightforward, benefits from retaining the Apple
> power supply unit. Do you think it matters if an inverter (good
> quality one,
> mind you, not one of those Radio Shark units!) produces modified or
> pure sine wave output?
>
> - a DC->DC converter: here's where I wonder if the mini has any voltage
> regulation or stabilization onboard. I'm checking to see how well
> buffered
> the output of such converters is against voltage drops, surges or
> spikes (as
> when you start the boat's engine, for example), but I'm curious to
> know more
> about what's onboard the mini itself. In a tiny package like that I
> can't imagine there's much.
>
> Regards,
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Hinckley
I am about to purchase a 30' sailboat and have been thinking for quite some time that a mac mini is the way to go but after reading this I am thinking maybe I should just stick with my 15" PowerBook since I already have a Lind 12v adapter for it. This would also obviate the need for a separate LCD monitor at the Nav station...
phowson Wrote:I am about to purchase a 30' sailboat and have been thinking for quite some time that a mac mini is the way to go but after reading this I am thinking maybe I should just stick with my 15" PowerBook since I already have a Lind 12v adapter for it. This would also obviate the need for a separate LCD monitor at the Nav station...
If I had a PB that would handle the work (I still have my trusty ol' PB 145...) I'd just use it too. As I do not, I liked the mini for price, and for the fact I can tuck it away in the shelf next to the nav station and put a monitor on a swing arm. It does incur extra costs for power supply, 12 VDC monitor, etc., but even then it's a pretty reasonable total cost.
When my Powerbook Pismo finally gives up the ghost, I'll probably opt for a new or refurbished iBook. By the time that you've purchased a Mac Mini, 12v power adapter + screen + keyboard + mouse etc, you've probably spent more than the total cost of an iBook.
+ you can remove it from the boat when you're not there, you get battery backup and it uses less power.
ReeferJon Wrote:When my Powerbook Pismo finally gives up the ghost, I'll probably opt for a new or refurbished iBook. By the time that you've purchased a Mac Mini, 12v power adapter + screen + keyboard + mouse etc, you've probably spent more than the total cost of an iBook.
+ you can remove it from the boat when you're not there, you get battery backup and it uses less power.
All true, but other people use the boat, so I want to be able to leave it aboard. Plus the mini stows nicely out of the way w/o taking up space on the nav table.
.....and I don't really want an iBook either :-))
I am setting up our mac mini so that the front of the mini is flush with the bulkhead above the chart table for loading DVDs and CDs, I have found a non-latching bulkhead "power on" button for booting up the mini, and I am also looking to wire up a USB and firewire socket on the bulkhead. I have found a (not very good) USB bulkhead socket in the RS catalogue, has anyone found a good USB bulkhead socket and are there any firewire sockets out there?
Quentin Wrote:I am setting up our mac mini so that the front of the mini is flush with the bulkhead above the chart table for loading DVDs and CDs, I have found a non-latching bulkhead "power on" button for booting up the mini, and I am also looking to wire up a USB and firewire socket on the bulkhead. I have found a (not very good) USB bulkhead socket in the RS catalogue, has anyone found a good USB bulkhead socket and are there any firewire sockets out there?
Now I would LOVE to know the source (part number?) of that power switch, as it is the one sticking point I have had in deciding how to mount the mini. Could you post that source, and describe how you hooked it up?
As a PS to this, I also plan to mount a monitor flush in the fold-up top of the chart table at the nav station, as it is inconspicuous and protected. Am also looking at using an old Fujitsu tablet computer via wireless and VNC to display charts from the mini in the cockpit.....
All these components came from the UK electronics suppliers "RS components", they are Honeywell original components so should be easily available in the US.
The push button is:
http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/search...&Nr=avl:uk
The cover is:
http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/search...&Nr=avl:uk
The Lens is:
http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/search...&Nr=avl:uk
I havn't wired up an indicator light or anything fancy like that.
As for wiring I am using a Carnetix DC-DC power supply which I bought with the Mac cable kit (
http://www.carnetix.com/optional_cables.htm). In that cable kit is a small splitter cable to fit inside the Mini between the power on button and the mother board which gives you a parallel flying lead out at the back of the mini. The Carnetix is supposed to sleep/wake your computer and screen when the ignition switch is used (I have substituted the ignition switch for an in-line "sleep" switch to sleep the mini and peripherals on command). At the moment I can't get the Carnetix sleep function to work, however even if it were working I would still install my separate panel mounted "power on" button so that:
A. I can boot up the mac when power is first switched on, and:
B. Re-boot it if it hangs up without having to remove the whole lot from the bulkhead!
My separate power on button is simply wired in parallel with the Mini power button using the little splitter cable supplied by Carnetix...... it works!
I am still looking for suitable bulkhead mounted USB and firewire sockets if anyone out there knows of one.
If you go back to the RS site and search for:
"Bulgin USB"
and
"Bulgin Firewire"
you will find many excellent solutions
hope this helps
Bob Etter