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+--- Thread: GRIB delivery (/thread-254.html)
GRIB delivery - bobetter - December 26, 2006
A new player has appeared on the GRIB lanscape, Grib.us. Their url is: http://www.grib.us/
In addition to their web based interface, they have a PC interface, "UGrib", that runs in Windows. I have been running it in VirtualPC with success, I assume that VMWare or Parallels or BootCamp would be even faster on Intel machines. The nice thing about their system is the delivery method, you download the .grb file directly from their server, no intermediate app such as Mail so the request and delivery is a 1 step process. You click "Download" after setting up your needed GRIB and it appears in your download folder. At present, they have only 3 requests for an OS X native version of UGRIB, but if enough Mac users jumped on the bandwagon, I think they would see the value in porting to Mac. Oh yeah, it's a free service....
- jagasail - December 28, 2006
I've played around with this a bit and it's not bad for free. However, downloading files directly from their website is inflexible and results in a rather large file. Their uGrib is much more flexible and shows the files size of your query before downloading it. I'm running it in Parallels and it runs fine.
HOWEVER, I find two major shortcomings:
1 - I find the lack of upper air (500mb) data a major flaw. I even got a grib with upper air data by a direct query to saildocs and openning it in uGrib. While uGrib would show the surface data it would not show the 500mb contours (which MacENC would do).
2 - You must be connected to the internet to get the data - their is no email delivery option. Thus its only good for short term near-shore data where you either get data before departure, or you need a satphone or other internet connection.
Still, for free it's great as long as you're coastal cruising, though a port to the Mac would be useful.
My two cents
Scot
(btw - I've only had my MacBook a few weeks now, moving up from a couple of ibooks, and am VERY impressed by Parallels).
500mb Height - GPSNavX - December 28, 2006
Will be supported in the next release of MacENC.
GRIB.US - bobetter - December 28, 2006
jagasail Wrote:HOWEVER, I find two major shortcomings:
1 - I find the lack of upper air (500mb) data a major flaw. I even got a grib with upper air data by a direct query to saildocs and openning it in uGrib. While uGrib would show the surface data it would not show the 500mb contours (which MacENC would do).
Yes, their suite of available files is limited at the moment. I'm given to believe that that will be user driven. Their forum has a "Feature Request" section whereby users can post suggestions/requests.
jagasail Wrote:2 - You must be connected to the internet to get the data - their is no email delivery option. Thus its only good for short term near-shore data where you either get data before departure, or you need a satphone or other internet connection.
I think you are missing the point here. To send/receive email, one must also be "connected to the internet", how you do that (cel, sat phone,wifi, etc) doesn't matter. The downside to email is that there are 2 transactions involved-sending and receiving, both of which are time and bandwidth consuming. The beauty of grib.us is that the transaction happens in one session, you make the request and the file is immediately downloaded, either with ugrib or their browser interface. I would guess that the connection time and data transfered are less than 50% that of the email method. BTW, you specify the size of the file in the browser by selecting the compression method or with ugrib, by the connection type. Once you get the file, MacENC or GPSNavX (or others) will display it.
jagasail Wrote:Still, for free it's great as long as you're coastal cruising, though a port to the Mac would be useful.
It will be just as useful no matter where you are. I currently receive my GRIBs while at sea via my Iridium and when coastal sailing via my cel.
Yes, a port of ugrib to Mac would be great... In the FAQ section of their page, they address that very issue. If they see enough interest from Mac users, I feel sure an OS X version of ugrib would be forthcoming. Make a request in their forum!!
jagasail Wrote:My two cents
Scot
Bob (not affiliated with grib.us)Etter
Re: GRIB.US - jagasail - December 28, 2006
bobetter Wrote:I think you are missing the point here. To send/receive email, one must also be "connected to the internet", how you do that (cel, sat phone,wifi, etc) doesn't matter.
No, I actually think you're missing the point. You can have email over HF (SSB radio) with sailmail or winmail but not have access to the 'net', i.e. able to access web pages and upload/download from the internet. HF email is cheap, proven, albeit slow, and is what most world cruiser still rely on, and will continue to rely on until satellite communications (such as the various hand held satellite phones) get better coverage and cheaper costs. Most offshore boats will have a SSB onboard with pactor modems, and thus email communications is possible while net access is not realistic, unless you have deep pockets. On most cruising budgets satellite communications is still a real luxury that they cannot afford.
Scot
Re: GRIB.US - bobetter - December 28, 2006
jagasail Wrote:bobetter Wrote:I think you are missing the point here. To send/receive email, one must also be "connected to the internet", how you do that (cel, sat phone,wifi, etc) doesn't matter.
No, I actually think you're missing the point. You can have email over HF (SSB radio) with sailmail or winmail but not have access to the 'net', i.e. able to access web pages and upload/download from the internet. HF email is cheap, proven, albeit slow, and is what most world cruiser still rely on, and will continue to rely on until satellite communications (such as the various hand held satellite phones) get better coverage and cheaper costs. Most offshore boats will have a SSB onboard with pactor modems, and thus email communications is possible while net access is not realistic, unless you have deep pockets. On most cruising budgets satellite communications is still a real luxury that they cannot afford.
Scot
Wow, this discussion quickly became one of apples and oranges. With all due respect, the advantages of SSB data transfer over others (sat comms for ocean work, cel or wifi for coastal work and good ol' copper wire when ashore) isn't what I'm talking about. Since I don't use SSB (and I know of many others who don't either) thats not really of interest to me, nor to prospective users of grib.us.
What HAS piqued my interest, tho, are the economies afforded by their transfer method. I would hazard a guess, also, that there are far more GRIBs being downloaded by non SSB systems (a lot of sailors never get into SSB or sat comms-only areas). BTW, nothing would prevent grib.us from adding email as a delivery method, unless they saw no advantage to it. I would again refer you to their forum to suggest it.
Now, having said this, perhaps we should start a new thread debating the pros and cons of SSB vs Sat Comms? I would welcome your knowledge/experience and would be happy to share mine!
Bob "Satellite Rocks" Etter
- jagasail - December 28, 2006
Bob,
I agree that most sailors downloading gribs are getting it directly from the net as you suggest, and for them grib.us is potentially a great tool, particularly if they expand their offering and port to Mac (for us Mac-ophiles at least). I would classify those as the near-shore cruisers (i.e. wifi or cell phone web access) and/or short range cruisers (1-2 day legs between ports/anchorages and web access and out of cell/wifi range, getting information before departure and depending on VHF or possibly ssb broadcasts for updates). These people are generally cruising in North American and European waters. If you're sailing farther and longer than that (such as a passage from LA to Hawaii or the Marquesas on the way to New Zealand) then you either need satellite or SSB email communications to get gribs, as you have done with your Iridium. Plain and simple, no other options.
As for pros/cons of SSB vs Satellite, I don't think their's much point - everything is in satellite's favor except for cost, and coverage at least for one of the two big satphone companies (Iridiun I recall has pretty good coverage, but the other has big holes globally - I may have it backwards). If you view it as an either/or, then satellite wins on the cost as well, with $1000-1500 upfront investment in the phone plus the plan costs, while SSB is about a $2000 and up initial investment (radio, modem, antenna, antenna tuner, installation, more like $3000+). Satphones can also be rented. However, for most global cruisers it's not an either/or but a SSB for sure and do they also get satellite. So it's an incremental cost and is frequently put as an alternative to a replacement anchor or stormsail or... The reasons being that SSB is used for all sorts of other purposes, including entertainment (BBC etc), WWV for time checks, direct weather fax and weather broadcasts (even if it's a backup), and very importantly for safety and cruising nets. The latter two need broadcast capabilities which takes it well over the Grundig Yachtboy price range. SSB is still the best way to chat with fellow cruisers who may be out of VHF range.
Getting a bit wordy here, but I hope you see my point. I agree with you that for most people grib.us is great. but for a blue-water cruisers it could use more flexible communications options. BTW, I made all these suggestions and a few more directly to grib.us before my first posting and subsequently received a positive and helpful response.
Scot
grib.us for Mac - bobetter - December 29, 2006
This has been an interesting discussion and judging from the number of views, there are a number of interested Mac users. There is now a thread on the grib.us forum titled "Mac Port". If enough interest is shown, I assume an OS X client could become viable, maybe even one with email as a delivery option!
http://www.grib.us/Forum/tabid/55/Default.aspx
You must register and login to be able to post....
- jagasail - December 29, 2006
I encourage everyone to throw their voice in for a Mac port. It would be the only stand-alone grib viewer and does have more flexibility (at least for now) than viewing them in MacENC/GPSNavX
Also, if anyone is interested in HF (SSB) vs satphone, the SSCA discussion board is probably a better place and has a lot already. Just don't get into an anchor discussion there - it's worse than politics. :wink:
Scot
- jagasail - December 29, 2006
Forgot to add:
http://ssca.org/
You need to register there as well to post, but the discussion board is free.
- cyberhusky - December 30, 2006
Quote:You need to register there as well to post, but the discussion board is free.
Done :wink:
500mb GRIBs - bobetter - December 31, 2006
I use the NOAA 500mb charts frequently as they are a great way to see what is coming at me in terms of future weather. Now that GRIBs have become my overwhelming interest for the week, I started to look at what was available for 500mb GRIBs. I can't find anything out there that shows both 500mb height AND winds at that height. I have found some that include surface wind with the 500mb isobars, but that doesn't really help as I am interested in how FAST those upper level systems are moving. Anybody found a GRIB that duplicates the NOAA chart?
- jagasail - December 31, 2006
Bob,
I haven't found a source for the 500mb w/winds yet either. However, you might look through Frank Singelton's site:
http://www.franksingleton.clara.net/
If there's a source he probably has it buried in there somewhere.
I also did a search on the SSCA board but came up dry. However I did find some interesting discussions on gribs, particularly some of the 'real world' experience comments by Evans Starzinger.
Scot
Re: 500mb GRIBs - lsoltero - January 1, 2007
bobetter Wrote:I use the NOAA 500mb charts frequently as they are a great way to see what is coming at me in terms of future weather. Now that GRIBs have become my overwhelming interest for the week, I started to look at what was available for 500mb GRIBs. I can't find anything out there that shows both 500mb height AND winds at that height. I have found some that include surface wind with the 500mb isobars, but that doesn't really help as I am interested in how FAST those upper level systems are moving. Anybody found a GRIB that duplicates the NOAA chart?
You might want to take a look at weathernet. WeatherNet includes both 500mb height and 500mb winds from various models including GFS, NOGAPS, and other regional models.
And.. all this is available via www.macwx.com which works in conjunction with GPSNavX grib viewer.
here are links which describe the products
http://www.globalmarinenet.com/weathernet.htm
http://www.macwx.com
The windows version of weathernet works under an emulator. You can use it with vmware.com (I have tested this personally) and parallels.
macwx uses e-mail to download the weather. WeatherNet allows both a direct download connection and an e-mail inteface. It also supports a large array of satellite phones and works with winlink, sailmail, and xnet (www.xnetmail.com).
--luis
Luis Soltero, Ph.D., MCS
Director of Software Development, CTO
Global Marine Networks, LLC
StarPilot, LLC
Tel: 865-379-8723
Fax: 865-681-5017
E-Mail: lsoltero@globalmarinenet.net
Web: http://www.globalmarinenet.net
Web: http://www.starpilotllc.com
500mb GRIBs - bobetter - January 1, 2007
Thanks Scot and Luis. I have been over the Singleton site many times and have found much useful info there, but alas no GRIBs that include both the 500mb height AND wind at that height. Ditto for the WeatherNet site which does have both the isobars and wind, but not in one combined GRIB. I have had limited success creating my own "Custom" GRIBs with the GMN GRIB combiner, but that is a kludgy solution at best. What mystifies me about this is the the fact that the NOAA 500mb analysis chart is a very well known and useful tool for forecasting in that it shows the location of the 5640mb isobar and the upper level wind associated with it, both excellent indicators of storm tracks and and the speed of those storms.
Bob Etter
- jagasail - January 1, 2007
Bob,
Agree totally. Went over Singleton's sight pretty well after my last post and couldn't find any. I'll throw the question to the SSCA board and see what I come up with.
Scot
PS - Happy New Year to All! May it be a good sailing year
Re: 500mb GRIBs - lsoltero - January 10, 2007
bobetter Wrote:Thanks Scot and Luis. I have been over the Singleton site many times and have found much useful info there, but alas no GRIBs that include both the 500mb height AND wind at that height. Ditto for the WeatherNet site which does have both the isobars and wind, but not in one combined GRIB. I have had limited success creating my own "Custom" GRIBs with the GMN GRIB combiner, but that is a kludgy solution at best. What mystifies me about this is the the fact that the NOAA 500mb analysis chart is a very well known and useful tool for forecasting in that it shows the location of the 5640mb isobar and the upper level wind associated with it, both excellent indicators of storm tracks and and the speed of those storms.
Bob Etter
actually its a fairly simple thing to create a combined grib file in wxnet. here is what you do... you create a batch and place your 500mb wind and 500 ht in it. You can also add whatever other grib files you want. Then do a right click on the batch and click on combine grib files after download and give the file a name.
that is it.
now hit go. you will have a nice combined grib file when the download completes.
this works for any grib file set in wxnet.
check out the instructions for more info.
or e-mail me.
thanks,
--luis
Luis Soltero, Ph.D., MCS
Director of Software Development, CTO
Global Marine Networks, LLC
StarPilot, LLC
Tel: 865-379-8723
Fax: 865-681-5017
E-Mail: lsoltero@globalmarinenet.net
Web: http://www.globalmarinenet.net
Web: http://www.starpilotllc.com
- GPSNavX - January 10, 2007
MacWX (The WeatherNet client for OS X) does not YET have the GRIB combining feature. Once direct connect is supported, then GRIB combining will be possible.
- lsoltero - January 11, 2007
A simple intermin solution is to release the GMN grib combiner for MaxOS. Maybe I will do this as my first Mac OSX programming project...
--luis
MacWX 2.0 - GPSNavX - January 24, 2007
MacWX 2.0 supports direct download of the OCENS WeatherNet products. Select the products you want, press request and almost instantly they end up in the downloads folder for immediate use.
http://www.macwx.com