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+--- Thread: Attempts at Real Time Navigation with an IBook (/thread-4.html)
Attempts at Real Time Navigation with an IBook - RBJ - April 21, 2005
As a Mac user for 20 years and just starting my fourth sailing season I'm pleased to see this forum established.
After a lot of fiddling about I now have a system setup and running. Plan to use it in anger for the first time this weekend.
I'm using GPS NavX with Maptech Admiralty charts on a new IBook connected to a Garmin GPS12. While this all works it isn't ideal for practical realtime navigation at sea. The IBook battery life is not enough and the Garmin needs to be on deck.
Ideally I need to sort out a power supply for the IBook to run from my boat's power supply and I would like to be able to connect my Raymarine fixed GPS directly to the IBook.
Most impressed with GPS Nav X and the people who produce it. They have been very helpful.
In reality I suspect the system will be very useful for voyage planning and if I leave the Garmin on all trip I can download the trip data for analysis if required.
The Maptech charts are fine apart from the fact that they are out of date and there seems to be no updating facility other than buying a newer chart pack which may or may not be up to date in the first place.
Roger
- ReeferJon - April 21, 2005
Hi Roger,
Welcome to the forum.
Firstly, with regards to powering your iBook, there are a number of 12v chargers available that you can either connect into a cigar-lighter socket, or wire to a spare switch on your 12v circuit. I actually ended up making a Powerbook Pismo 12v adapter (as Apple uses non-standard power plugs) by taking apart an old Apple mains PSU, and soldering the plug to the end of a generic 12v laptop power supply I bought from [url=http://ww5.aitsafe.com/go.htm?go=www.marineelectronics.info&afid=14462&tm=7&im=2]JGTech . This works fine. However there are "proper" iBook adapters out there. Check out [url=http://www.laptopshop.co.uk/Apple-iBook_White_CAR70T13-Laptop_car_adapter-1-ca2.htm]Laptopshop.co.uk ...
With regards to the RayMarine GPS, it very much depends on which model you're using. Reefer, my Trapper 300 had a rather nice RayMarine ST60 system set up on it by the previous owner, with GPS, repeaters, log, depth and wind all connected to the same Seatalk system. In order to be able to interface this data into the Mac, I had to purchase a Seatalk to NMEA convertor for about £100. The reason I opted for this option was due to the amount of Raymarine equipment already on board (in particular the wind indicator for tracking polars and racing performance) However if I'd just had the GPS, I probably wouldn't have bothered ;-) Incidentally, one of the issues of the ST60 is that you can't upload or download waypoints and routes to it which is a real pain!
Hope this helps!
ReeferJon
- RBJ - April 21, 2005
Thanks Reefer Jon
Will check out the power leads.
I've got the Raymarine ST60 Tridata with wind. Had a chat to Raymarine at the boat show and they reckoned they could make up a lead to my Garmin to exchange way points. Haven't followed this up yet.
Bit concerned to hear that I can't upload/download waypoints as this is a feature I would find very useful.
Roger
- ReeferJon - April 21, 2005
I shall be surprised if they can do it with just a cable. As far as I was aware the ST60 would only output Seatalk, not the NMEA needed to talk to the Garmin or any other GPS device for that matter...
But I could be wrong.. ;-)
[url=http://www.brookhouseonline.com/]Brookhouse do a range of NMEA multiplexers including a Seatalk-compatible one...
- JohnDProctor - April 24, 2005
I have an ST60 system on my Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37.2 and you can upload/download waypoint data.
The configuration is ST60 tri-data, S1 autopilot with ST6001 control head and a Raynav 300 GPS. The Raynav has Seatalk and NMEA connections so I used the Seatalk bus to connect to the S1 autopilot's second Seatalk bus (the first bus was used to connect to the instruments tri-data and control head). The NMEA connections on the Raynav were brought out to a DB9 connector at the nav table.
I have a PB G4 1GHz which uses as Keyspan USA-19QW USB Serial Adapter to connect to the boat's electronics system. It works fine. The major issue is that you need to set the Raynav 300 into waypoint upload mode before starting the download from the PB.
How did you get on? - Quentin - April 25, 2005
Hi Roger,
I am interested to find out how you got on with your setup. Mine is very similar except I am using a powerbook.
A colleague here at work had his powerbook suddenly, instantly and totally die on him (at work, not at sea!) an event that reminded me that I am still not brave enough to toss away the paper charts yet.
On the subject of computer reliability and power consumption, this may sound nuts, but I have cut a piece of polycarbonate twinwall conservatory roofing and stuck it to the bottom of my powerbook with blutack. Since I did that the bottom of the computer has stayed MUCH cooler and the fan never comes on. I would recommend this to anyone afraid that their mac portable is trying to cook itself to death and wants to save battery power from the fan being on. The added advantage is that when you work with it on your knee you don't need treatment for 1st degree burns afterwards!
For DC power I have bought a LIND transformer and cables that I plug into a cigarette socket (in cars also) www.lindelectronics.com. My Garmin 12 also has a 12v "cigarette" power cable.
Quentin
- RBJ - April 26, 2005
Wow! This is going to be a very useful forum. So much information so quickly.
Got back late last night and there was an E-Mail from GPS NavX announcing a Version 3.2 with Waypoint and Route transfer to Raymarine among others.
Looks like JohnD has sorted out connecting to Raymarine. "The NMEA connections on the Raynav were brought out to a DB9 connector at the nav table". I wonder if this is the cord Raymarine were talking about.
Took my kit down to the boat for testing on Sunday and Monday. Sunday afternoon/early evening at sea was mainly rainy and a bit bouncy. My chart table is close to the companionway and slides out of the way when not in use. It is not a suitable spot to place an IBook which I decided not to use in those conditions.
Left the Garmin on for the 5 hour trip powered via the Garmin combo power/computer lead plugged into my panel socket.
Once all fast in Salcombe I connected the IBook to the Garmin. The GPS position showed me almost on top of my buoy on the largest scale chart of Salcombe harbour. This was using NMEA mode. Then by switching to "Garmin" mode on the GPS I could download my track although it included previous tracks as well in one big transfer. I also uploaded some waypoints and routes from the IBook.
GPS NavX displayed a nice coloured dotted line of my trip which it maintains as you switch charts.
Monday started foggy but by the time I cleared Salcombe there was little wind and the sea moderated to almost flat calm with bright sunshine.
Set up the IBook with the Garmin in NMEA mode and there was the little boat shape on the screen creeping along in real time. The screen was a bit difficult to see (even down below) in bright sunlight. I left the IBook on but put it into sleep mode except when viewing progress every half hour or so.
Conclusions:
1. The kit works very well and GPSNavX seems to be evolving quickly.
2. On my 26 footer I don't think the chart table arrangements are a suitable IBook environment except in calm sunny weather.
3. Once I have connected to Raymarine it will be easy to prepare and transfer Routes/Waypoints to my main GPS
4. Because of 2 above I will use the system for planning and anlysis rather than real time navigation. However even if I had a larger boat with a dedicated chart table where the IBook would stay dry I think I would stick to paper charts on passage. Maptech don't seem to have a way of ensuring up to date corrected electronic charts.
Roger
- JohnDProctor - April 26, 2005
Roger,
You have found the major defect in all Laptops. The LCD is just too light to use in direct sunlight. Thats why special LCD panels are used in monitors designed to be used outdoors.
On the issue of the cable for the NMEA output from my Raynav 300 I made it up myself and mounted the DB9 connector on a small sheet of plastic mounted on the panel at the nav station.
My main use is to transfer waypoint data from trip planning to the GPS for the autopilot.
BTW I am also an Electrical/Electronics Engineer so hardware is not too much of a problem for me.
Interface with Raymarine GPS 300 - RBJ - April 27, 2005
Thanks again JohnD.
Interesting comparison between Raymarine and Garmin. Garmin simply produce and sell the desired cable.
Raymarine, while acknowledging that their products can interface with a computer, don't seem to want to provide the kit to do it. From their site I get the impression that they are more concerned about warranty breaches than helping customers connect.
From the Raymarine site on connecting to Raytheon Raystar 112LP GPS Receiver:
Quote
Question
Is it possible to connect the DB9 connector of the GPS 112LP NMEA version to my COM1 serial port of my Sony notebook?
Answer
First, I just want to clarify the fact that the 112LP GPS sensor with NMEA output does not ship from the factory with a DB9 serial connector attached. There are several outfits who have been selling these units online, however they have been modified AFTER being shipped from Raymarine. These alterations are not authorized by Raymarine and can void the sensor's warranty.
That being said, yes it is possible to connect the 112LP to the COM port of your PC. You will need to supply the GPS sensor with a source of 12V DC power, as the COM port does not provide any power to external devices.
If you are constructing an adapter to do this, you will need to gain access to the red, yellow, and shield wires in the 112LP cable. The 112LP yellow conductor will connect to pin 2 of the DB9. The 112LP shield will connect to pin 5 of the DB9. The shield also doubles as the 12V DC (-) connection. Red is the 12V DC (+) connection.
The NMEA protocol is 4800 baud, 8 (8 bits), N (no parity), 1 (1 stop bit). You may need to adjust this in the port setup on your Sony notebook. Flow Control can be set to "hardware".
End Quote
Hmm. I just want a cable. So have sent a specific request to Raymarine asking them to supply one.
If this fails I guess the only solution is to make one up a la John D.
Seems clear though that the desired outcome of interfacing and exchanging data with the GPS300 is perfectly possible.
Roger
Connecting to Raymarine GPS300 - RBJ - April 27, 2005
Perhaps I spoke too soon. Raymarine replied very quickly.
Quote
We don't do a dedicated one designed for what you are asking for, but the GPS 300 has a NMEA connection on it. What you can do is purchase a cable, E86001, which terminates in a DB9 connector.
It has the wires that you need to connect to the NMEA, they are as follows:-
Colour of cable>description>pin>Nema connection
Green > Transmit from PC > 3 > NMEA in (+)
Yellow > receive into PC > 2 > NMEA out (+)
Black x2 connect to NMEA (-)
This will allow you to connect the GPS into your Apple.
Endquote.
Cable ordered. Will advise results.
Roger
Connecting to Raymarine GPS300 - RBJ - June 9, 2005
Just thought I would post a progress report.
Power
Purchased a cigarette lighter power supply lead from the Apple Store. This seems to work best if I remove the IBook battery. If I leave the battery in it still runs down and does not charge. With the battery out the IBook runs just fine from the lighter socket but I must remember to put the battery back in afer disconnecting or I lose lose some system settings (Date Time Keyboard). However, if I use my lighter socket extension lead to use the IBook further forward it won't run. I presume there must be some loss in the extension cable.
Note that the Power Supply refers to an input voltage of 13.5 volts whereas even with my new boat batteries fully charged voltage rarely exceeds 12.8 v
Raymarine 300 GPS
Finally got the cable from Raymarine and was able to conect it to an NMEA cable which was already in place and only being used for power connection.
Plugged into the IBook and GPS Nav X recognised the signal. Voila, real time navigation via the 300GPS.
Downloading Waypoints from 300GPS
No problem using appropriate menu in the GPS. All received by GPS NavX.
Uploading Waypoints to 300GPS
This was interesting. The 300 GPS received the waypoints but in the process the longitude seems to have been corrupted with most reading around 70w. More fiddling required here.
Downloading Tracks from 300GPS
I want to do this but so far have been unable to do so.
I'm pretty pleased with the results so far. Not has seamless as with the Garmin but we are making progress.
On another note. Arrived in St Peterport Guernsey last week. Turned on the IBook and Airport connected to the new marina hotspot. Absolutely superb. Fast connection and I was able to check the weather forecast, review mail etc without having to leave the cabin.
Roger
Waypoint transfer format for Raymarine - GPSNavX - June 9, 2005
GPSNavX sends and receives waypoints in this format when the "Type" in the GPS Panel settings drawer is "Other"..
$GPWPL,3746.53,N,12214.70,W,AL-MAR*checksum
$GPSWPL,lat,latdir,lon,londir,name*checksum
http://f4hla.free.fr/RadioAmateur/HLAPRS/protocole/NMEAcomplet.html#wpl