+- MacSailing.net (https://macsailing.net/mybb)
+-- Forum: MacSailing.net (https://macsailing.net/mybb/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: General (https://macsailing.net/mybb/forum-4.html)
+--- Thread: Chart support for the rest of us... (/thread-5.html)
Chart support for the rest of us... - JohnDProctor - April 21, 2005
I have been a Mac user for about 20 years also had a 30+ year career in IT. What concerns me is that software developers for charting programmes seem to be totally fixated on BSB formated charts. I can understand this as they are:
1. readily available
2. cover an area with a very large potential user population
However there is the rest of the world to consider. I have looked for some time for Mac charting/navigation software for the Mac and there are a few reasonably good ones. The problem is that they do not support any data formats for which maintained chart data is avalable to me. Let me explain...
I sail in Australian coastal waters. The Hydrographic office has data which is in raster format (similar to the UK ARCS) format. They are starting to convert this data to S57 vector charts but the coverage is spotty at present and mainly covers the Great Barrier Reef (too many commecial vessels keep hitting the reef for politicians' comfort) and the congested shipping channels to the north of the continent. So my options come down to me buying the paper charts I need and then scanning them for registering and conversion to BSB. However there is still no maintenance for the chart data other than manual updates. I don't want to do this.
The Hydrographic office is partially responsible for this mess as they donglize their raster data so that the software needs to be licenced to use the data. I can only guess what that might cost!
So where does all this leave the recreational mariner? The digital data provided from official sources seems totally oriented towards commercial interests and I can understand that but there are a great many recreational mariners who, over time, would like to use this official data. They need to be accommodated as well (after all we are taxpayers too)!
There are commercial sources for this type of data as well C-Map, Navionics are two that come to mind but they too are not supported by any of the useful Mac based charting and navigation software that I know.
So while there is the basic application software available, there is still no reliable maintained data source available to feed these applications.
I will now climb down off my soapbox and continue sailing with my antiquated paper charts. :lol:
- ReeferJon - April 21, 2005
I agree. The situation's not quite as bad in the UK, but still not ideal. MapTech's charts don't seem to be updated particularly frequently...
The US have the right idea, the the NOAA providing S57 charts of all the US coastal waters for free. Their logic.. if the charts are paid for by US tax payers, then they should be available to US taxpayers.
Hence, the only native vector chart support on the horizon is S57 support within GPSNavX coming soon. That may suit US users, but, in the UK, there's a potential issue with S57 data being encrypted. I think we'll only find out if cartography is compatible once GPSNavX S57 support is actually released. And as you say, Aussie coverage is patchy.
As for the commercial cartography C-MAP and Navionics, it's unlikely that they'll be any Mac chart plotters supporting them in the near future; as both are proprietary standards, and do not offer non-Windows SDKs to developers. However, if we should loudly enough...
CMAP! Please release a non-Windows SDK so that the rest of the computing world can use your charts!
Once we've got a few more users on MacSailing.net, maybe we should launch a petition!
- JohnDProctor - April 22, 2005
I would agree with the notion that if cartagraphic support is to be extended then it should be to S57 vector charts. After all the IHO established this standard so that ECDIS compliant data sets could be interchanged easily.
The single biggest stumbling block is government policy! By this I mean that most governments are backing away from service provision funding so that service and data providers within governments must become more and more self funded. When this revenue imperitive is placed on hydrographic offices you see the kind of situation that exists now in Australia. They see their customer as the commercial shipping industry and product pricing is set accordingly. Dongles and data encription protect their IP and licence fees to software developers ensure that only the big end of town can afford access to the official data.
The recreational mariner is almost totally ignored in this except for their PC based application called Endevour which can use their raster data (with accompanying dongle). My fear is that the situation will get worse as more S57 compliant data sets hit the street (should that be the marina maybe :lol: ).
C-Map and Navonics are a good alternative in that their data sets are geared to the recreational mariner. The problem is convincing them that the Mac community represents a big enough opportunity for them to recoup their costs of support and make some money on data set sales.
The opportunity is there, especially with MacOS now being BSD unix based. Much of the api set could be made unix generic or at least unix flavour neutral. This could expand their market well beyond the Wintel platform to the Mac and many other unix based software platforms.
I fear that they will see the market as too small and therefore avoid it completely. One thing is for sure and that is whoever does actually get in first and provide support for the Mac community for their supported and maintained data sets will in all likelihood corner the market. Mac users have a very good track record over the years of buying software and being loyal customers for those developers.
S-57 chart data should be free to everyone. - phowson - June 8, 2005
Everyone would benefit from this since everyone is dependent on goods that are shipped by boat. While the cost savings on new charts may not be significant for shipping companies, the ability to instantly update chart data while at sea would significantly improve marine safety for very little cost.
The essential question here for mariners is: are we as tax payers paying for this data to be collected so that it can sit on a shelf or is the real purpose of having a cartographic service to provide for safe navigation? It's like buying fire engines but not hiring any firemen.
In the interest of making our (with "our" implying that although we kill each other all the time over the imaginary lines on the ground we call "borders", we still have to share the same planet) waterways safer, the exchange of marine charting data, especially in this day and age and with the available technology, should be free.
I think that a foreign sailor has just as much right, to say nothing of obligation, to navigate US waters with the knowledge of where things are as I have to navigate foreign waters with the same information. Neither of us should have to pay for the information beyond faithfully paying our taxes.
I would like to be able to leave as clean a wake as possible and would expect others would aspire to do the same. Safe navigation is one way to make that happen and safe navigation is greatly facilitated by access to accurate, up to date charts.
Write your elected officials if you have them. if they don't respond elect new ones.
Why S-57 - GPSNavX - June 8, 2005
S-57 ENC support is coming along well. I have focussed on the S-57 ENC because it appears to be a world wide standard. GPSNavX will continue to support BSB/Softchart format.
Rendering an S-57 takes far more work than a raster BSB chart. With this comes lots of advantages (anti aliasing, seemless chart scrolling, course up display, etc.).
Vector charts will never compare to the artistic look of the raster charts.