[Chris Sears]

I have a Garmin 60csx and GPSNavX doesn't support it. The USB protocol is Garmin specific rather than NMEA standard. Nothing new here. But it is now 2008 and Garmin isn't going away. Any thoughts to revisiting this? Could you use the GPSBabel interface library? Google Earth Plus uses GPSBabel. I'd be happy to spend $60 or $160 for GPSNavX but I'm not willing to spend a dime for another freaking USB cable, let alone two.

[GPSNavX]

If you want to transfer waypoints, routes and tracks to/fro Garmin over the Garmin USB cable to/fro GPSNavX via GPX files you can use LoadMyTracks

The problem with Garmin protocol for real-time tracking is it lacks some key information (satellites, active route and waypoint). Garmin should do the right thing and support NMEA over their USB cable just as every other GPS receiver has.

You are correct to interface GPSNavX directly to your Garmin 60CSX you would need these two cables (to extract NMEA data)..

Keyspan USB to serial Adapter

Garmin PC Interface Cable

It is 2008, where is that promised back in early 2006, OS X support from Garmin?

[Chris Sears]

The OSX support is 'there' but perhaps the NMEA support might not be. If I run Garmin POI Loader, the Interface says USB (Garmin Data Format) Connected, Serial Data Format NMEA In/NMEA Out. And the Garmin Device Interface Specification is documented as is Garmin Proprietary NMEA 0183 Sentence Technical Specifications.

I'm not sure the problem would be any different on Vista or Linux.

[GPSNavX]

Garmin continues to support NMEA, the industry standard for marine instrumentation. Their new Colorado 400c comes preloaded with US Coastal Charts and can easily be interfaced to a Mac with the PC Data Cable.

[gorgesailor]

Recently bought the Colorado 400c, but took it back. You have to hold the bloody thing level all the time in order for it to properly navigate on the compass page - a hiking GPS is what it should be marketed for, not sailing.

Spending close to $100 on chords to hook up a Garmin to MacENC is pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

The USB GPS is a nice way of going about it, but if your computer fails due to lack of battery power/inverter failure etc., the USB GPS becomes completely obsolete.

Either a) Garmin needs to get with it and allow NMEA data to be sent via USB, or b) a better GPS with NMEA protocol via USB needs to be talked about on this forum so that potential buyers of MacENC don't have to continue in circles trying to figure out a solution to using their Mac onboard for navigation.

Personally, I'm almost at the point where I'm going to just buy a crappy PC laptop for $200 and install Nobeltec along with all charts for the US and Cda for free (as Nobeltec is so easily accessible through the sailing community). That way my Mac doesn't get wrecked onboard, and it doesn't end up costing me hundreds of dollars!

I'm all ears for suggestions for the budget minded sailor!

[jagasail]

I find this response somewhat baffling, as I have never had any problem connecting a Garmin to MacENC, though admittedly my Garmin experience is somewhat limited (i.e. - I've only connected three of the hundreds of Garmin's that have been marketed). Right now I'm running a Garmin GPSMap76 (on the economic end of the Garmin line) with a Garmin data cable that I would need if I interfaced with a Mac or a PC. While I'm using a 'not cheap' multiplexor now, it can be wired into a simple serial plug and connected to a Mac with the Keyspan, which every Mac Sailor should have anyway for all sorts of other reasons. It all works quite well. There's also lots of other non-Garmin GPS, some as cheap as $20 or less, that also work very well and don't even need the Keyspan (using the built-in USB cable). It's not really that difficult.

Scot

[GPSNavX]

The cables to connect MacENC to a Garmin do not cost $100. A quick search on the web finds the Keyspan adapter and the Garmin PC interface cable can be had for about $60. Furthermore I would never recommend a USB GPS interfaced to a Mac be some ones only GPS system. A basic handheld GPS to use in the cockpit while a Mac down below with a USB GPS makes sense.

Agree Macs are probably not the best choice for those on a tight budget, but then again neither is owning a boat! Although fighting with Windows can be expensive time wise.

I take offense to the suggestion that Nobeltec or anyone's software should be pirated. The industry responds with dongles and other protection schemes such as encryption on charts. Over on the Windows side SeaClear II is a free choice and there are many low cost options on Windows. On the Mac side GPSNavX for US$59.95 won't break the bank.

[gorgesailor]

Scot - you're totally right in the sense that Garmin can be used with MacENC, however, as is with the 76CSx this is done best through the serial port. Garmins that have USB output cannot transmit the NMEA data through USB like they can through serial, which is very annoying. You thus have to get a keyspan adapter plus a PC data cable (adding up to close to 100 bucks for the two). There really is no reason Garmin shouldn't be capable of sending NMEA data through a simple mini USB - USB chord for connecting to the Mac.

On top of that, I'm also annoyed by the Cdn Hydrological Society or whatever it is that produces the Cdn ENC's that they charge 176 bucks for each region, all the while NOAA produces them and posts them for free on their website!

Okay, how about this question... Does anyone know if the same charts (raster and vector) that are used for Nobeltec can be used with MacENC?? Or are they windows specific?

[GPSNavX]

Nobeltec (depending on the version and product) supports various chart formats including C-Map, Passport, BSB and S-57 ENC.

MacENC supports S-57 ENC vector and BSB/Softchart raster format..

Opening ENCs with MacENC

Opening BSB and Softcharts with MacENC

[jagasail]

Garmins that have USB output cannot transmit the NMEA data through USB like they can through serial

Seems to me that ought to be a consideration when buying a GPS, and there's so many out there (including Garmin) that work fine and simply (and inexpensively) with a Mac and MacENC. I honestly don't see why people don't just get one of the $20 GPS if they want to interface with MacENC using USB. If you like the bells and whistles of the fancier ones in the cockpit have that separately. MacENC doesn't need any of that stuff to work. I guess a lot really depends on how you use your laptop and GPS while sailing.

That being said, I still have my issues with Garmin, like why can't I send a route to my Garmin via nmea. For me it means disconnecting the GPS from the nmea network and connecting to my Mac with the serial/Keyspan cable and putting into Garmin mode, loading the route, then changing everything back. A bit of a pain.

AND, Canadian Charts...tell me about it! I sail B.C. a lot and have all the westcoast bsb charts, which set me back way too much. As much as I'd like, I'm not about to put out over a grand for the S57 charts when I already have paper and bsbs.

Scot

[bobetter]

Spending close to $100 on chords to hook up a Garmin to MacENC is pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

Huh? you need to look a little harder...for CORDS I mean.

Personally, I'm almost at the point where I'm going to just buy a crappy PC laptop for $200 and install Nobeltec along with all charts for the US and Cda for free (as Nobeltec is so easily accessible through the sailing community). That way my Mac doesn't get wrecked onboard, and it doesn't end up costing me hundreds of dollars!

I'm all ears for suggestions for the budget minded sailor!

Well, I for one don't really have any suggestions for you other to hit up your "Sailing Community" sources that are supplying you with illegal copies of Nobeltec....maybe they can help }

[gorgesailor]

Haha, sorry folks as I seemed to have ruffled a few feathers! I'm not saying that my intention is to pirate software - I'm just trying to find the most economical way of going about this, as well as the possibility of having a system that can be used in other activities (such as hiking, kayaking, etc - using the handheld side of the equation there obviously).

Quite a few of my friends who are fellow boaters that are also trying to enjoy cruising at a minimal cost are the ones who have been pushing Nobeltec, and all of the "sharing" that is involved. These are not people who simply "booze cruise" around the coast. These are people that know the true expense of blue water sailing, and have suggested options that they were exposed to by other blue water sailors on a like-minded budget.

Please, I'm just trying to get a feel for what is involved in suiting my boat up with a respectable navigation system, and figuring out how to pair that with my love of Macs (or to be more blunt, my detest of PCs!) I do not believe that sailing is strictly for the elite, and as such I feel navigation should follow suit. (Heck, until now, most of my navigational experience has been by the use of the stars and a sextant!)

That is one of the reasons why I appreciate the minimal cost of MacENC itself. Everything Apple is so incredibly expensive, so it's refreshing to see that MacENC is actually an affordable option.

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone.

On final note, a question: I agree that the USB GPS is a good option for MacENC. As far as a GPS on its own however, which make/model would you folks suggest to compliment the Mac setup? As I mentioned earlier, the Colorado is a joke, as you have to be holding it level all the time in order to receive proper information (in this way, I believe that the Colorado should be marketed for either kayakers or hikers, not sailors, as I think most of us would agree that we would rather have the unit in some sort of a stand or holster unit so we can view its information without having to hold it all the time).

Does Garmin make such an animal that can be mounted as well as held when not on the water? Anyone own the 76CSx?

Anyways, thanks in advance, and again I apologize for putting anyones knickers in a knot. It was probably my frustration in dealing with boating supplies staff and their lack of product knowledge, thus leading to multiple excursions to the local store for further input, that made my previous posts sound rude.

Happy sailing.

GS

[bobetter]

Haha, sorry folks as I seemed to have ruffled a few feathers! I'm not saying that my intention is to pirate software - I'm just trying to find the most economical way of going about this, as well as the possibility of having a system that can be used in other activities (such as hiking, kayaking, etc - using the handheld side of the equation there obviously).

Quite a few of my friends who are fellow boaters that are also trying to enjoy cruising at a minimal cost are the ones who have been pushing Nobeltec, and all of the "sharing" that is involved. These are not people who simply "booze cruise" around the coast. These are people that know the true expense of blue water sailing, and have suggested options that they were exposed to by other blue water sailors on a like-minded budget.

Please, I'm just trying to get a feel for what is involved in suiting my boat up with a respectable navigation system, and figuring out how to pair that with my love of Macs (or to be more blunt, my detest of PCs!) I do not believe that sailing is strictly for the elite, and as such I feel navigation should follow suit. (Heck, until now, most of my navigational experience has been by the use of the stars and a sextant!)

That is one of the reasons why I appreciate the minimal cost of MacENC itself. Everything Apple is so incredibly expensive, so it's refreshing to see that MacENC is actually an affordable option.

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone.

Thanks for coming "clean" George. Unfortunately, pirated SW is a general problem, and in the cruising community (perhaps as a result of sailors' habit of squeezing every possible penny) an accepted way of life. It's gotta stop or soon there will be no motivation for new development. The old adage of "you get what you pay for" really holds true here. The fact that Macs cost a little more maybe is a perfect example. Having said that, when you look at the cost of a Mac coupled with the (low) cost of something like MacENC or GPSNavX, you still come in lower that most Windows solutions.

On final note, a question: I agree that the USB GPS is a good option for MacENC. As far as a GPS on its own however, which make/model would you folks suggest to compliment the Mac setup? As I mentioned earlier, the Colorado is a joke, as you have to be holding it level all the time in order to receive proper information (in this way, I believe that the Colorado should be marketed for either kayakers or hikers, not sailors, as I think most of us would agree that we would rather have the unit in some sort of a stand or holster unit so we can view its information without having to hold it all the time).

Does Garmin make such an animal that can be mounted as well as held when not on the water? Anyone own the 76CSx?

Garmin makes a number of handheld units which could be taken off a boat, any one of the GPSxxx units would work just fine for your application. Using a "headless" USB GPS as a backup would put you in a great position, no pun intended.

Anyways, thanks in advance, and again I apologize for putting anyones knickers in a knot. It was probably my frustration in dealing with boating supplies staff and their lack of product knowledge, thus leading to multiple excursions to the local store for further input, that made my previous posts sound rude.

Happy sailing.

GS

I'd suggest doing your research online rather than at the local store. I think you'll find the info here more accurate than what you'll get at a store and certainly more complete. Having said all this, the bottom line is that there isn't really a "cheap" solution, after all you are trying to protect both your life and a most probably expense investment, your boat.

BTW, what Mac do you have and what systems are already on the boat? Once we have a sense of what your ultimate design goal is, I'm sure the suggestions will come pouring forth..

[ebgb]

Sort of know where you are coming from gorge, the temptations to pirated software are huge, albeit attached to the huge millstone know as micro$oft windoze

maybe too late to suggest this if you've bought one already, but if its a handheld you want, forget garmin altogether and go for a magellan, older ones with very basic mapping (GPSMAP 315) seem to only fetch a few quid on ebay, and the more modern ones like the meridian series don't go for much more. the meridian having the advantage of you being able to upload charts to it and it is very good all in one hand held chartplotter

NMEA support is excellent, and most software I've ever dabbled with has been far less problematic when you tell it the the gps is magellan as opposed to garmin.

currently I've got a magellan meridian platinum as a handheld back up and cannot fault it at all - its even waterproof and floats!

[gorgesailor]

Thanks for the apology acceptance guys.

Currently I have a Macbook laptop, but since I've also got a wireless keyboard, mouse, and flatscreen LCD from a previously owned PC, I'm thinking of trying to find a second hand Mac Mini. New, they are about $670 and I've seen a few advertised locally for under $500 for the G4 (512mb-1gb RAM, 80gb HD, Mac OS 10.4). I think that it would do well in the boat (won't actually take up as much room as a laptop, believe it or not, as the monitor will be mounted on a swivel inside the gangway.

MarkH - funny, you're the first person to actually not mistake my handle for an actual name of a person (Gorge is right. I've never sailed a "george" before!) Anyways, thanks a lot for the heads up on the Magellans. Although I do like the Garmins, it does seem like the company simply subscribes to the quantity, and not quality train of thought. What they SHOULD do, is come up with a mariner's Nuvi. Yes, Garmin has the huge 5215 for six grand, but why not allow those small touchscreen Nuvi's to interface with marine cartography? I love the touchscreen idea (as using Garmin's arrow feature to move your way around makes me feel like I'm using an etch-a-sketch!), and thus the Magellan Crossover has caught my eye. It's not overly priced either.

The only question I have on that front now, however, is: what is the marine cartography like on the Magellan's in comparison to the Garmin Bluechart? And what about pricing?

[ebgb]

the bluechart kit comes with an sd card.

the cd has every chart needed for the are covererd, and there big areas ie - all of europe or all of north america, you transfer the charts to the sd card then shove te card in the magellan. now, here's the good bit compared with garmin. Every chart is unlocked, unlike the garmin, where you buy an unlock code for every chart area you need to upload. the official line from magellan is you can only upload one chart at a time, loading a different chart overwrites the current one.... but its a standard SD card. so stick the card in a card reader and copy the chart image file and rename it. Each time you load a chart to a card from the bluenav software it always calls it 0001.IMG or something, so if its renamed on the card - it doesn't overwrite it! there's a menu option to switch charts on the unit itself when you shove the card in the unit. with a 1gig or 2 gig sd card, if you spend the time doing it you can get every chart loaded on the card AND keep a backup in a folder on the mac!

I did read a couple of threads on the web elsewhere that suggested you could convert the magellan .IMG format to use elsewhere, but never found out how

I paid £125 for the bluechart kit over here, which I think is a bargain as every chart in the kit is available to use, unlike bluechart

as for chart quality, I can only vouch for the UK charts as they are the only ones I've used, they are derived from the standard UKHO vector charts and every bit as good as the others IMHO - C-mpa, Garmin and navionics, slightly different styles, but just as detailed

they look something like: (this is the 2002 version)
http://ebgb.net/misc/tyne-entrance.png

I only know one george that is sailable, but only after he's had plenty of rum, and even then doesn't handle very well in a slight swell

[gorgesailor]

Fantastic! Thanks a lot Mark! Your post was very informative. I was somewhat apprehensive of their charting, but the link you put makes it look pretty darn good! I'm checking out a Magellan Crossover tonight. It's on sale too - for $350 from $420, and it includes all road/hwy data for all of north america. Plus it's touch screen. If I like the interface, we may have a winner!!

[GPSNavX]

Eventually the dedicated handheld GPS will go the way of the PDA that got replaced by smartphones..

Bummer year for Garmin

[bobmcd625]

Hi...
Did you ever get your Garmin 60 csx connection to MacENC sorted out? How do you like the 60? Did you consider their 76 model? I am teetering between these two myself. The Colorado looks nice, but a lot more dosh.
Regards
Bob

[bobmcd625]

I am curious if the charts you get in the UK are similar to those in the USA. Here the Magellan charts are called BlueNav and the Magellan website says clearly that the buyer gets only one chart on one SD card. Do any of the USA-based people have experience with the Magellan charts?