[trevc]

I made one mistake above: The Mapmedia3d vector charts are NOAA(S57), not Navionics-sourced. Most of the other non-US regions are Navionics (similar data and style to Navionics Gold).

[bobetter]

Trev

Thanks for that great report!

Couple of questions:

-what emulator are you using on the Mac for Windows or are you using Boot Camp?
-how much of the processor load you're seeing is emulator versus MaxSea?
-How did you like the weather module? Can you tell us what provisions there are to request WX data?
-during your testing, was real-time GPS info being processed?
-did you initialize Autopilot output during testing and if so, did you see any artifacts (lag in cross track output, slow down in rendering, etc.)?
-can you do more than 1 install per license?

Thanks!

[trevc]

Hi Bob,

No emulators, just bootcamp drivers, etc.

I imagine it would be possible to run Maxsea TZ under VMware Fusion (it supports Directx 9), but would probably be quite taxing. I think if you're going to bother with the software, it should be run on Windows. It's a fairly hardware intensive app.

The weather module appears to do everything, it would take a while to explain every option. I'm not sure where the data is sourced from, I assume it's grabbing GRIB files behind the scenes. You simply highlight a region and click the weather update button. It can use your existing Internet connection, or deliver a compressed file via email/sailmail, etc. There's really too much to cover here, so perhaps I'll just post a series of screen-shots soon. The animations are all very smooth, making it easy to visualise patterns, and also quite entertaining to observe.

One nice feature is being able to supplement your own AIS with data from marinetraffic.com. I turned on this Internet option, and found tons of vessels of the East coast here. It even fetches photos of the vessels, if they're in the database.

I now have the East Coast Australia charts unlocked, Maxsea sent the info last night. There's no raster charts available for here, only the "Navionics Datacore" ones. They seem very similar to Navionics Gold, and are easy to read. All of the markers around here appear to be up do date and accurate so far.

Now, the bad news! The satellite data for Australia is absolute crap. It looks like someone took these pictures from the moon with a cheap digital camera, then zoomed in and saved them with very high jpeg compression. Why do we get stuck with $h*! data for our region? there's plenty of high quality sat photos that can be licensed (see google earth, virtual earth, etc). I hope they fix this. I'll be putting in a support request with screen-shots.

We don't have our boat yet (soon!), so I can't comment on usage in the real world. Based purely on how smoothly everything else runs, I really doubt having GPS/autopilot or other data coming in and being interpreted will make any difference in performance. Only future testing will tell.

Regarding licensing: It's 1 install per license. You can change computers by "deactivating" your current install on their website. I don't expect to run multiple copies, but I shouldn't be subjected to serial numbers for everything + activation. This is one of the main reasons almost all of the software we run is pirated. Developers should realise that if there's enough demand, your application will be cracked and distributed. Serials and activation only inconvenience your paying customers. (sorry for the mini-rant)

[trevc]

Here's an example of the poor Australian sat imagery compared to Google maps at roughly the same distance:





The bathy data around here seems to be quite useless as well.

[ActiveCaptain]

This is one of the main reasons almost all of the software we run is pirated. Developers should realise that if there's enough demand, your application will be cracked and distributed. Serials and activation only inconvenience your paying customers.

So let me understand what you're saying. Most of the software you use is pirated. If you could have gotten a pirated copy of TZ, would you have used that instead?

It seems to me that the serialization did it's job by forcing you to actually pay for the software. Keep stealing the work of others and the developers will find new ways to make it difficult or go out of business because they can't pay their bills.

[trevc]

Hi Jeffrey,

My issue is with software that seems to punish and/or inconvenience paying customers. I once had a problem with an application (that I paid for and licensed) not working because I simply upgraded some hardware and attempted to re-install. It's not acceptable that I need to sit on the phone to some call centre in India and wait while they sort it out. The people that don't have these issues are the ones downloading cracked copies. I "upgraded" myself to a cracked copy of the same software, because it was one less thing to worry about for future hardware upgrades(or failures).

It's a similar situation with hardware dongles. You won't find any pirates (running the same software) with useless dongles hanging off their USB ports. I also know at least one person who has a legit Maxsea 12 license, but needs to run a dongle emulator so he can free up one of his only USB ports.

Apple is one of the few companies to (at least partially) acknowledge that all of these protection schemes are ineffective. There's no client version of Mac OS X with serial numbers, activation schemes, or restrictions on number of installs.

Re: Maxsea TZ. I have yet to pirate anything that's running on the boat computer, dodgy protection-schemes or not. I suppose because in some ways the software could contribute to our general safety and well-being.

Also, I believe the reason we don't see any bootleg copies of MSTZ could be because of its relative obscurity, not the serial number and copy protection. Even the best protection on the largest software suites almost always ends up cracked.

I've had some real "licensing" issues recently (and in the past), which was what led to my little rant. I should've kept it out of the thread.


Anyhow... are you currently running TZ? Americans are sure lucky to get such nice chart coverage and sat photos. I hope they're planning to upgrade our part of the world. It's no wonder they don't include screen-shots or videos of regions beyond USA/Europe!

[bobetter]

Trev

Thanks for your reply.

The ability to run under an emulator would be a must for me, too many OS X apps running to have to reboot anytime I wanted to access one of them versus MaxSea

I think you'll find that running ANY Nav SW with active GPS data will raise the bar quite a bit. Constant redraws of the screen, AIS targets, etc. are just a few of the added tasks involved. Add Autopilot output to the mix and you've got a whole new ballgame as compared to a static situation. While MaxSea may present a very pretty picture when operating in "eye candy" mode, I'm curious as to how it performs on a Mac in the real world.

Regarding WX, I'm most interested in how MaxSea uses isochrones with GRIBs and boat characteristics for route planning. Have you played with that at all? How does calculating and displaying routes affect the real time performance?

[trevc]

I wish I could test it out for you in VMware. Unfortunately I would need to completely remove my current install first (which was 6 DVD's + big updates).

It's too bad there's nothing even close to TZ on Mac OS X. Surely Snow Leopard would be a great platform for building this type of software. I guess the market for nav software is fairly small to begin with.

I haven't decided how Maxsea TZ will interface with our boat. Perhaps a USB/NMEA 0183 multiplexer, or maybe even N2K gear and backbone with something like the Maretron USB100 feeding coveted (old style) NMEA data to the Mini.

The more advanced routing/race-planning features are a separate module. I also still need to test importing GRIBs from another program to see how the software handles it.

TZ seems to do a really good job of pre-buffering (for lack of a better term) surrounding charts and information. I think it will be fast with GPS input because it's updating a point in this buffered 3d space, not re-drawing a chart around a point. I'm purely speculating here. The only input I've had in TZ was the AIS targets from marinetraffic.com.

I received a response from Maxsea regarding the satellite images for Australia:

Satellite pictures are low resolution pictures and we need to sign a specific agreement with Australian authorities in order to offer high resolution.
(paying).

We don t have any raster charts for the moment.

Was there any timeline for when the hi-res imagery might be available
for the Australian region?

Unfortunately not, we are working on extending our coverage but it can takes time before signing agreements.

When a new contract for HR pictures is signed, we inform your local reseller, so he can diffuse the info.

[AugustH]

If there was a big business making Mac navigation software, with several developers & testers assigned to the project, then I think we'd see things like TZ on the mac. Unfortunately most of us are sole proprietors who saw a niche that needed filling, and did so (big fish in small pond sort of thing). But none of us here have the resources to try to develop something like TZ. On the other hand, our stuff is either free or less than $100, while TZ is what $300? $400? That's getting close to half a boat unit* and that's not something most of us can afford to just try out. I'm glad you could! I'd love to see something like it native for Snow Leopard, since with Grand Central Dispatch for easy multithreading and GPU support for matrix math and such, the mac with SL should fly.

* BOAT (noun, definition: Break Out Another Thousand)
Boat unit (see above)

[trevc]

So far, my preferred boat plan is:

- Shipmodul USB NMEA-0183 multiplexer with AIS input (Mac OS drivers too!)


- Standard Horizon VHF GX2100 (has integrated dual receiver AIS, + NMEA output). It can still provide AIS if the computers and plotter die.


Navigation will be by Maxsea for inland waters, then primarily paper charts and Maxsea for offshore. MacENC is a backup nav system on the Macbook.

The existing GPS and depth sounder would route through the multiplexer. The multiplexer would feed the Mac Mini (or Macbook), and the existing Raymarine C80 plotter.

Have the developers of MacENC ever considered utilising the black HUD user interface elements? I think they'd look great for most of the floating MacENC dialogues. Some of the controls would be well suited, and it's fairly high contrast for outdoor screens.

[fish2live]

Well then, what about running Maxsea on a mini? I just took the plunge to purchase said package myself and came here hoping to resolve some nagging fears about dongle recognition, GPS port sharing, etc. Readers will note that the thread devolved from that.

I should first clear up some misconceptions. There are now something like 11 versions of Maxsea. If it has a TZ in its name, it is a stripped down recreational version, and I don't think it requires a dongle. If it doesn't have a TZ in the name, it costs a whole lot more and still requires a dongle. I'm hoping that somebody has been through the experience of making the dongle work in Parallels.

As a commercial guy I can walk through the harbor and talk to plenty of Olex, Maxsea, Nobeltec, Globe and other users. Commercial boats generally don't stick with ancient Decca units. Rather, they add to them until they can't squeeze into the wheelhouse any more. Every package has all the same basic navigation functions, though some are extremely cumbersome. It boils down to the main focus. Olex is strictly a high end bottom mapping package with dedicated hardware. It's the ultimate 3D package, and it is such a pain that almost nobody uses the navigation functions. Globe is made to manipulate objects on the screen, with add-on bottom mapping and 3D views. It is just as much of a pain for navigation. Maxsea was similar to Globe, but newer versions are drawing the rave reviews that you can read in this thread. I would say that Maxsea has been turned into Nobeltec. Some would also say that Nobeltec is a pain.

I really don't care if Maxsea can steer the boat or zoom better. I want to map the bottom and then turn everything off (Parallels, Windows, etc) when I don't need it. Maybe one day I'll get so used to Maxsea that I won't use MacENC any more. Meanwhile, I want to figure out how to make MacENC and Maxsea play together with my gps, Shipmodul mux and read the same chart files. Has anybody done this yet?

[ActiveCaptain]

I can't believe Maxsea TZ is going for $346 on Defender. You Americans always get such good prices on everything!

I'm not as concerned about the "3D" aspect, it's more just the appeal of a really fast vector/raster charting engine. The weather downloads seem really slick too.

The very latest version of MaxSea Time Zero is being released today or tomorrow. It will be available for less than Defender is selling it.

Lots of new features. I've been testing this latest version for over a month. It's just incredible what they've packed into this software:

• [li]Windows XP and Vista and Windows 7 (32 bits / 64 bits compatibility)[/li][li]Connection to GPS and other data (NMEA compatible upon serial ports or Ethernet by Furuno)[/li][li]Autopilot compatibility[/li][li]Worldwide planning charts included[/li][li]US NOAA chart area included (vector, raster, 3D, satellite imagery)[/li][li]New mm3d "C-MAP by Jeppesen" Vector Charts Compatibility[/li][li]Worldwide tide database included[/li][li]US tidal currents included[/li][li]Worldwide 3D database included[/li][li]Exclusive TimeZero real time GPS navigation and 3D engine[/li][li]Exclusive TimeZero look and feel (work spaces and ribbons)[/li][li]TimeZero automatic full screen feature[/li][li]Customizable Toolbar, Ribbons and NavData[/li][li]Undo / Redo function[/li][li]Exclusive TimeZero charting engine (seamless, smooth!)[/li][li]Exclusive TimeZero PhotoFusion (photos and charts)[/li][li]Time Zero 3D navigation (recording Marks, Waypoints & routes, etc.) [/li][li]Unlimited vessel track and track line coloring[/li][li]Unlimited Marks, waypoints & routes, Marks, Waypoints & routes lists[/li][li]Marks and routes transfer to GPS (many supported)[/li][li]Search engine to localize on chart worldwide places.[/li][li]POIs: Online Photos Google PANORAMIO compatibility - Adding to "My Photos".[/li][li]POIs: Active Captain compatibility.[/li][li]Free web service weather updates (rain, cloud, air temp, wind, waves, currents, pressure)[/li][li]Weather and tidal animation[/li][li]Alarms[/li][li]Logbook[/li][li]AIS and ARPA Targets display; targets lists[/li][li]Display DSC Waypoints and MOB[/li][li]AIS Online[/li]

Although I obviously love the full offline ActiveCaptain support with synchronization, there are some really interesting things in this new release:

- Full weather support without any additional fees for the data - no pesky monthly or yearly subscriptions

- AIS online support if you don't have any AIS hardware currently but are in internet range

- Undo/Redo - I never realized how nice this is. First, it means that there's no annoying "Are you sure you want to do this?" type of warnings when you're deleting something. They're no longer needed because you can always undo the operation. And of course, other operations are undo-able too. Move a waypoint in a route by accident - no problem - just undo it.


MaxSea Time Zero's zooming and panning is something that every boater who uses electronic displays should experience. It's something totally new an unique. "Instant" doesn't describe it well enough. You've just gotta see it.

[ozmultis]

And yet I will continue with GPS navx