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Hi, I am Barry and I am new to this forum, there is obviously a lot of useful information here. I have a lot of sailing experience using paper charts in the UK. I have just purchased a Newport 30, it has little electronics at the moment. I have a budget of about 4k for a suitable system which I would like to include radar, gps and hopefully AIS, and of course depth finder. I already have a new MacBook, so I don't need to purchase that. I am looking for some suggestions for a suitable setup. I am more than able to do all my own installation. (Ex RAF Electronics apprentice fitter)
Thanks
Barry
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I like the Nexus Marine systems ..
http://www.nexusmarine.se
Scott Dillon
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Hi, Was in the UK, now ,living in Redding California and the boat, a Newport 30 is going to be based in San Francisco Bay. Hence the need for Radar and AIS, fog and all that! I intend to use MacNav or course, but I will always have paper charts on hand.
Barry
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$4000 is a good chunk of change and I'd still get a combined chartplotter/radar unit. That, plus paper charts would be a great navigation aid. I know about fog, trust me there have been times I've been very happy watching the radar as I motored in the pea soup.
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One problem with Raymarine is its inconsistent support of NMEA-0183. As noted earlier I like the Nexus systems. Very easy install and configuration. For RADAR I hear good reports about Furuno and know its compatible with MacENC. I like Comar AIS-2-USB AIS Receiver.
Scott Dillon
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Ok, I understand about radar and chartplotters. But why would I use a AIS receiver rather than a transmitter/receiver?
Barry
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I'm heading towards Raymarine C series at the moment, with their Radar and display, along with a AIS dual channel RX etc, I will use MacENC for route planning etc, but the Raymarine when under way. Any comments on this plan?
Barry
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Barry I use E series stuff and had the dealer put in a Keyspan serial to USB and pick off the NMEA. I use that connection for my laptop and MacENC and MaxSea.
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Jim,
My sailboat is much smaller, a Newport 30, but I am over the top maybe with electronics, but I believe in being safe. I suspect E series is more expensive than the C series. If you have gone the "whole hog" with a plotter, radar etc, I'm wondering why should I use a laptop at all?
Where are you moored? Do you have a AIS transponder on at the moment?
Barry
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I have a fair amount of Raymarine equipment installed on my boat. Multiple helms and just about everything they produce. It's pretty easy to get NMEA data out of their interfaces. I use a laptop and mobile phone for all planning and route creation (creating a route on their devices is user-hostile in my opinion). From there, I connect over Bluetooth to a ShipModul multiplexer that handles SeaTalk as well as the multiplexing needed to interface everything together. It has worked like a charm over 18,000 nm of cruising.
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I have Raymarine for wind/speed/depth integrated into my system via a Miniplex multiplexer and wouldn't get Raymarine again simply because of the NMEA issues. Just not worth it when many other good options are out there.
One option to look at are the newer Standard Horizon CP180 or CP300 GPS/chart plotters. I have one (CP300i)and it will display AIS, and can act as a Radar display for one of the Sitex PC radars. The two (plotter/radar) can be had for under $2000 usd, which leave a lot left for and AIS plus wind/speed/log instruments. You'd still likely have cash left over, so might even even be able to include an AIS transciever. The Standard Horizon is also compact so would fit more easily on your 30 footer.
BTW - no one actually answered your question about AIS receiver vs transceiver. I think the answer is really that the transceivers (Class B) were just approved and there's not much experience with them yet. Transceivers also cost 2-3 time that of a receiver. I have a receiver purchased not long before the transceivers were approved and really like it. However, if I could do it over again and had the extra cash I'd definitely go with a Class B transceiver. Also, spend the past two days in LaPaz and the cruisers here with AIS were all very enthusiastic about their use of it while traveling down the US/Mexican west coast(Puget Sound-SFO-San Diego-LaPaz etc).
Scot
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Hi Barry,
I am in the Vancouver area... My AIS is the Raymarine AIS250... a receiver only. Love it.
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Hi Barry
I have a Raymarine C70 and Raymarine/Autohelm instrumentation. While it works well enough I would be reluctant buy another of their products.
- The C series uses Navionics Gold charts. These are corrupted so that they can only be used with Navionics/Raymarine PC software and kit.
- This means I cannot use my Navionics charts on my Mac using my standard card reader and running MacENC or GPSNavX.
- There are connection issues. I can use the GPS feed on my Macbook but it is a bit problematic. A simple Garmin handheld works better with the Macbook.
-I find it very frustrating to have suppliers try to dictate what hardware/software I can use with charts that I have legally purchased.
- The view, which I do not share, seems to be that if I want to use my Macbook I have to buy the charts all over again in a different format. It's no wonder people are tempted to get their charts from er.. other sources.
- I would add that Raymarine appear to have a bit of a cavalier attitude to older Autohelm/Raytheon kit. I had a radar fail at 8-9 years old on a very lightly used boat. The attitude seemed to be, well tough, buy new kit.
I've heard good reports about Furuno radar. It seems very popular with fisherman.
Regard,
John Proctor
VK3JP/VKV6789
S/V Chagall
Sun Odyssey 37.2
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Roger, thanks for the info. Your blog is interesting reading, we might well pass you by one of these days. I notice your boat started at Plymouth, although I live in Northern California, that's were I am from, my brother still sails there.
Did you put Raymarine Radar on your boat? How do you keep you batteries charged?
I know all about battery acid, I once experienced a aircraft battery explode with a dozen of us watching, the sole of my shoe fell off a few days later. Clean up must be good, I wouldn't want any of it to come in contact with keel bolts!
At the moment I have ordered a USB GPS to go with MacENC to sail the boat from where it is to our marina across SF Bay, no problem. I also have iNavX for backup, but I want RADAR for the foggy bay days and nights....And I want a system that will interface to the mac for planning, a plotter/display that I can see underway, AIS and a sounder.
I am attracted to Standard Horizon and Furuno, but figuring out the integration is a nightmare, that's why I was hoping that one of the more knowledgeable members here might be able to help..hint hint.
Barry
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When interfacing multiple NMEA data sources into a Mac we recommend the Shipmodul Multiplexers. If you don't need to miss with the quirkiness of Raymarine Seatalk then you can go with a Shipmodul Miniplex Lite. It offers three NMEA inputs including AIS support.
MacENC supports up to three ports so you can continue to use a USB GPS on one port and then the multiplexer on another USB port.
I sailed/raced the SF Bay area (often single-handed) for 10 years without RADAR. Relied much more on a sounder.
Scott Dillon
Sydney Australia
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Looks like a Miniplex for me, but the price ouch! Anything with marine attached to is puts the price up by a factor of four.
My intention is using a propriety plotter/gps/radar/ais whilst under way that I can use from the cockpit and my Mac for planning and from my berth.
Having once had a near miss in bad weather off of the Isle of Wight I really like Radar.
Barry
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Hello Barry
I sailed out of Dartmouth but am now almost three years into long term cruising. My Boat is 28ft.
If I were starting with a clean slate I certainly would not have the setup I have now.
I.E. Raymarine/Autohelm fully integrated Radar/Electronic Chart/Speed/Wind/Tiller Pilot/Depth with options for AIS Weather and Engine Data. All this feeds into one screen with data repeaters at the chart table and on deck. I can clearly see the plotter from the cockpit including when steering by hand (which is not that often).
With the C70 you buy the display and then various bits that feed information into it. Scanner, GPS etc.
It also can overlay radar on the chart or put chart and radar side by side. This is all just fine and dandy but it comes at a price, a very big price.
These forums indicate what happens when you stray outside the world of Raymarine with Raymarine base instrumentation installed.
I've been using Macs since 1985 and would really like to use MacEnc for all planning, archiving and analysis and use my Raymarine plotter for navigation. The user interface is vastly superior to Raymarine. Possibly if I had the time to get a Mac setup that was totally splash proof I would dispense with the plotter. Outside northern Europe or North America fiddling with this becomes a lot more difficult.
I don't like the Raymarine user interface (nor Garmin for that matter). Both are pretty neanderthal. Try one in demo mode and start entering waypoints. Then see if you would like to repeat the process hundreds of times as I have had to.
For me there are two issues.
1. Chart Compatibility
On my last boat I sailed in a relatively small area using paper charts and Maptech electronic charts. I had a small older Raymarine GPS/Display (2003). This worked fine and I did all my planning etc on a Mac and was easily able to upload/download waypoints and routes. In good weather I used the Mac for navigation as well.
On my new boat I'm sailing in a much wider area. The plotter uses Navionics Gold which I can't use with MacENC. I'm not paying twice so now, very sadly, I don't use my Mac for navigation or planning. I really resent this and wish I'd done more homework on Raymarine/Navionics before buying. As it was I had a week to refurbish my electronics and replace a knackered radar.
2. System Integration
Will the kit you are going to buy talk easily to a Mac? If it does not why buy it over something else that does.
What do you want to integrate with what and why.
The boys from MacENC constantly mention the pitfalls of proprietary systems over open systems. They are 100% right and have been a great help to me in the past.
With a clean slate I would be minded to seek out the best products for my needs and integrate them, mixing brands where necessary and discarding those that made integration difficult. Ideally all this chosen kit would feed into a Mac with MACEnc. I suspect there would be some very material savings in going this route.
Note: If you are just sailing in USA waters chart cost is not an issue so you can get Navionics and MacENC charts at little cost. (if you must have Raymarine)
I've had Kiriwina with Radar for 3 1/2 years. Used radar 1 (Autohelm) in anger in fog twice. The second time it blew up. (scanner full of water).
Radar 2 has been used once in anger in fog while passing Rio de Janeiro. The alternator drive belt failed and it was nice to know nothing was about to run me down while I replaced the belt.
Otherwise I've used the radar for things like checking the distance of squalls, land or passing ships. It also has MARPA which I've played with a few times. To be honest I'm not sure the radar is mission critical. But then I've only had fog three times in three years.
BTW so far I've found Navionics charts generally more accurate than new paper charts particularly outside northern Europe.
Fairwinds
Regard,
John Proctor
VK3JP/VKV6789
S/V Chagall
Sun Odyssey 37.2
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For battery charging (3 x 100ah):
Shore Power: Via Sterling Digital 4 step switch
Engine: Standard alternator via Sterling 4 step alternator booster
Sailing:
Superwind wind generator
Regard,
John Proctor
VK3JP/VKV6789
S/V Chagall
Sun Odyssey 37.2
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Here are some of the things I would look for in a system.
- NMEA-0183 compatibility (GPS, AIS, Instruments)
- BSB raster and/or S-57 ENC vector chart compatibility
- GPX and/or KML support for waypoint, route, track interchange
- GRIB Weather Forecast file support
- Mac OS X support (i.e. drivers for USB GPS or AIS receiver)
Scott Dillon
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As they say you get what you pay for, but as far as transferring waypoints and routes it has been inconsistent. Some Raymarine systems work fine with the NMEA $GPWPL and $GPRTE messages, but many do not. Raymarine has a closed system for transferring waypoints, routes via a flash card.
Scott Dillon
Sydney Australia
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Second that. I've got routes and waypoints on a flash card and I've got a card reader but not Raymarine's windows only one.
I can't read the flash card data in MacENC.
The only data I have got out of the C70 into Mac ENC is a GPS feed using a keyspan adaptor. Even that is only yellow not green.
Regard,
John Proctor
VK3JP/VKV6789
S/V Chagall
Sun Odyssey 37.2
