[MacSail]

I've been a mac user since the advent of Apple and a GPSNavX user since it's first release.
Apple has come a long way as far as accepting new programs and input devices.

When will NavX and ENC? What happens if my current (and very outdated) GPS unit fails? I've had three other units that are a charm to use and beautifully accurate - but none of them work with this program.

I appreciate all of the use I've got out of NavX for the initial cost I spent on it, but now it's less expensive to buy a better program and a PC to go with it rather than hunt around for the small fraction of GPS units that are compatible.

The rest of the field has left GPSNavX at the back of the pack. I know it's possible - my other GPS programs communicate via USB without special adapters.

By the developers own admission, he's already sold 10,000 copies of iNavX for the iPhone at $49.99 a pop. Perhaps GPSNavX has become a legacy product, else some of that HALF A MILLION DOLLARS could be used on supporting modern equipment.

[GPSNavX]

Be a bit more specific, which brand/model GPS receiver(s) are you referring to?

Other than Garmin's USB cable (which does not support NMEA-0183 data - the standard for marine instrumentation), my experience has been USB GPS receivers, USB AIS transponders/receivers and USB Multiplexers work great with MacENC and GPSNavX.

Not sure how you can get a Windows PC for less then the price of GPSNavX and a cheap USB GPS such as the USGlobalSat BU-353. Please post details.

[MacSail]

Be a bit more specific, which brand/model GPS receiver(s) are you referring to?

Sure - the list of devices I've tried follows:
Magellan eXplorist (forgot the model number)
Garmin Oregon 200
Garmin Colorado 400c
Magellan Triton 500
Magellan Triton 2000
Garmin USB receiver (forgot the model number)
Bushnell ONIX 200

In fact, only the BU-353 works without an adapter and I've gone thru three in 2 years - not something I'd trust. Yet, except for the ONIX all of the above receiver and handhelds work with my other Mac based GPS programs -- without any adapter, using the included USB cable.... except GPSNavX.

My issues lay with the inability of GPSNavX to work with handheld devices, and less so, the inability to work with the hundreds of other receiver pucks available at everywhere from marine stores to Wal-Mart. When I experience a component problem while sailing I'm not comfortable with having to special order and rush ship a single particular part that can delay my departure and float plan by a week.
The BU-353 may be cheap and only a tad slow compared to modern equivalents, it really does suck power from your Mac and if you factor in rush shipping it's over $100.

With respect to your assertation:

Other than Garmin's USB cable (which does not support NMEA-0183 data - the standard for marine instrumentation), my experience has been USB GPS receivers, USB AIS transponders/receivers and USB Multiplexers work great with MacENC and GPSNavX.

I refer to and quote directly from my Garmin Manual (page 34): Interface Output: USB NMEA 0183

Not sure how you can get a Windows PC for less then the price of GPSNavX and a cheap USB GPS such as the USGlobalSat BU-353. Please post details.

I'll just have to refer you to any number of MicroSoft commercials. Mac's aren't cheap. Here's just one I thought would be a nice fit:
A waterproof CF-52 P8400 2.26GHz Toughbook with Centrino2 vPRO and built-in GPS: $1559
I'm not here to pimp any PC software alternatives, but there are more than a few that I'm sure we all know of.

[GPSNavX]

My experience either first person or from dozens of customer reports is the majority of USB GPS will work with GPSNavX and MacENC for real-time position plotting, but they do require the requisite OS X driver be installed. Most use the Prolific driver and some use the FTDI driver. These drivers are linked in the GPSNavX and MacENC help.

It is true that currently GPSNavX and MacENC do not support Garmin's proprietary data transfer for real-time plotting as such one must use their PC adapter cable and a Keyspan adapter to extract NMEA-0183 data from them. It is something that may be supported in a future release. Their proprietary format is a bit lacking. For example it does not include Satellite info or active waypoint info. Ideally we would like to see Garmin offer their spanner software on Mac. They have it for PC. What it does is convert their proprietary data into NMEA-0183 data sentences and create a virtual serial port. If they did that then GPSNavX and MacENC could continue to work in the NMEA data world and communicate with autopilots and other marine instrumentation.

We have sold a couple thousand BU-353's and have heard of less then a handful of failures. They work well even below deck and have a 1Hz update rate (certainly adequate for boating use).

Which model Garmin manual were you quoting?

[MacSail]

My experience either first person or from dozens of customer reports is the majority of USB GPS will work with GPSNavX and MacENC for real-time position plotting, but they do require the requisite OS X driver be installed.

You asked me to provide a list of my GPS devices that did not work. Can you be so kind as to provide a list of those which do work and the driver associated with them? Yes, I'm aware of your links to the two drivers on your website and I'm also aware that the FTDI driver (v2) which you recommed hasn't been updated since October 2005, the Keyspan in November 2007, and Prolific in November 2005 -- not that it'd help since it is a USB to Serial driver.

My point is that all of these are legacy software products. All I'm asking is why GPSNavX can't keep up?

I'm not trying to champion a cause here; I sail for a living. I trusted GPSNavX for a few years. Now I'm very aware that I cannot. Serial devices? Really!?!

[GPSNavX]

Not an absolutely exhaustive list, but a good start:

USGlobalSat MR350, BU303, BU353 USB
Zenstar USB
Any Bluetooth that supports NMEA-0183
Any Garmin that supports NMEA-0183 (requires PC interface cable and Keyspan adapter)
Magellan ColorTRAK and SporTRAK, GPS 300 series, Meridian series
Raymarine
Furuno
Standard Horizon
Northstar

The majority of the puck style USB GPS use the SiRF and Prolific chipsets. These will work with GPSNavX and MacENC as long as the Prolific driver is installed and the unit is plugged in BEFORE starting GPSNavX or MacENC.

If you have a specific GPS brand/model you have in mind send a direct email and I will check compatibility.

[GPSNavX]

Actually the FTDI driver was just updated to 2.2.14

http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm

And the Prolific is v1.2.1 and Keyspan 2.5, both from mid 2007.

Yes NMEA-0183 is a serial protocol (RS-422), but both FTDI and Prolific make chipsets allowing it to work over USB.

[ebgb]

not sure where things have gone screwy fr you, but I've had several Magellan's plugged - old 315, 2 different meridians and a sportrak all worked fine - check that nmea is turned on maybe?

also used several garmins, 180, 230 175 555 - again need to tell the garmin to stop talking garmin nonsense and talk NMEA

a cobra mc600, and a lowrance LMS 480

also used several cheapo usb things from ebay, and have also had a couple of prehistoric gps units (whos name escapes me) and all worked as expected

its been quite a neat tool to test cabling on gps's for people, and, in fact I've yet to plug any in that didn't work!

only thing I've ever had to do is go intot he gps and check nmea is turned on what the baud rate is

[GPSNavX]

Another FYI, is when a Garmin handheld is connected via a Garmin USB cable it is powered by the Mac and it will draw far more power then a simple USB antenna (i.e. BU-353) will. Garmin GPS receivers are great, but NMEA is the way to go when it comes to marine instrumentation.

[cyberhusky]

Here's my list of working GPS devices with GPSNavX and MacENC (older and latest versions)

- Garmin 12 (serial via Keyspan adapter)
- Garmin 72 (serial via Keyspan adapter)
- Magellan Meridian Marine
- BU-353 (works best, reliable, fast even in house at home, where non of the other were able to get a signal!)
- Locosys BGT-31 (Bluetooth and usb mode) (GPS Data logger with SD card)
- SysOnChip Bluetooth GPS

the above GPS have been tested on several Macs (iBook G4, Macbook white from OS X 10.3.x - 10.5.x), and different Netbooks running OS X)

a friend mine uses a cheap Bluetooth GPS and an imported VHF with GPS from the USA, with no problems.

None of the GPS had any problems, except for giving sometimes the wrong position, but that has to do with either poor signal strength or disturbing radiations at special places (GSM antenna, military regions, radio antennas, interferences with other electronics or just wrong cabling etc. )

With Garmin GPS I noticed when using cheap PC Serial 2 USB cable, not all data was transferred. Using the Keyspan adapter corrected this problem.

I haven't updated my Mac laptops to Snow Leopard yet (10.6.x)
because I notice many USB related problems on my iMac at home: signing stick, Canon EOS picture loader etc doesn't work correctly, but that a problem of the drivers or apps not being Snow Leo compatible.

Regards,

Manou

[JackConnick]

Add a venerable Garmin GPS48 to the list.

I do wish that Keyspan would update it's drivers. I also find having to have my Mac Plugged in to the cable quite limiting and will be adding a bluetooth receiver.

I just updated to Snow Leopard and had route transfer problems until I uninstalled and re-installed the keyspan drivers.

Jack

[kphinney]

I'm in agreement with nearly all of the posts here: there are plenty of pro's and con's to using GPSNavX (I haven't tried ENC).

Pro - The service is typically very good and fast.
Con - The service tends to give up rather easily.

Pro - GPSNavX does work with a lot of receivers.
Con - It doesn't work nearly as easy as most other GPS enabled programs, and the integration between the program and a handheld is very limiting.

Let me explain my comments for clarity; I've been using GPSNavX for over 3 years on many PowerBooks and Macbook Pro's. In that time I've had a Bu-353 which worked well, but that was one of the few. I've gone thru quite a few handheld units, upgrading when new features are released. As a low level hack I can usually make my own drivers work for many of these units -BUT I think this should be the job of the software vendor. Why is this program dependent on external drivers???

For example: Route Buddy can identify and log into nearly ANY GPS (handheld or receiver) I plug into it. AND it does so with the native USB cable that comes packaged with the GPS.

Likewise, there are a handful of programs that immediately recognize and are able to transfer data from the host program to the Handheld, such as waypoints. After three years and 5-6 handhelds I've yet to have this feature work on GPSNavX.

My queries to the developer are answered usually immediately and by a real person - that is an amazing feeling. Unfortunately, after a few back and forth emails the developer tends toward the same old response: buy a BU-353. In all honesty the last time I had this conversation with him he offered to send me a free BU-353!!! I declined, but how many developers are willing to go that far to insure customer happiness? He's great in my mind.

Yet, despite all of the Pro's, I think the program is becoming legacy as mentioned above. 4 years ago, running it on an old Lombard I was thrilled, but it hasn't kept up with the times.

An author above states that Garmin does not include Satellite info. Who cares? I want the program to simply connect to my new $500 Garmin Colorado 400c below deck and transfer it to my handheld for use above decks.

So to sum it up: I'm sticking with GPSNavX for now and hoping the developer brings it to a new level. I'd even consider shelling out for a new version that includes the modern features. Why not, no one else has gave away soo many updates. Perhaps it's time for a rebuild that will give the developer a new revenue stream.

I can be reached at kphinney (at) gmail (dot) com for comments - I'm a newbie here and found this while searching for answers to my new connection issues. Great forum All. Thank you.

[GPSNavX]

MacSail/kphinney,

While RouteBuddy and the other TOPO apps that are compatible with the limited Garmin proprietary USB protocol are useful they don't have the responsibility of controlling an autopilot and steering it accurately to a waypoint via NMEA data or accepting AIS or instrument NMEA data or broadcasting NMEA data over TCP/IP.

So while it would not be so difficult to support the Garmin proprietary USB data for GPS position input, the challenge would be to continue to support the other NMEA data requirements of marine navigation.

There is a reason Garmin (and Raymarine) continues to support NMEA data on their marine GPS units - they know there is a whole world of marine instrumentation and software out there that relies on it. I do not know why Garmin does not support NMEA data over their USB cables like many other GPS receivers do. It could be that they want to keep costs low and not include a USB to serial chip inside their receivers instead putting it in their PC interface cables.

BTW Many of the non portable Garmin marine units do not even support the Garmin proprietary protocol (No USB port), instead only supporting NMEA-0183 and NMEA-2000.

Both MacENC and GPSNavX will continue to be updated frequently with no plans to ask registered customers to pay more.

[kphinney]

Sorry , you're going beyond my scope of knowledge. I do know for certain that my Garmin is capable of NMEA output via USB.

On suggestion from the couple a few boats down, I setup my MacBook Pro as a dual boot with Windows XP. Running Fugawi works very well with it, and according to the manual a "GPS receiver with NMEA 0183 output or compatible USB GPS" is required. Mine works with this but not GPSNavX, no extra drivers necessary.

I'm still on the free 10 day trial but when faced with spending $250 for the software vs. $300-$500 for a new handheld I may have to stick with learning a few Windows things. Very nice two-way communication by the way.

Thanks again for all of your help.

[GPSNavX]

Or for a Garmin Colorado or Oregon (300 or 400 or 550) GPS receiver you could use these two cables ..

http://www.tripplite.com/EN/products/mod...delID=3914

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=1169

Then be sure to set the Garmin GPS receiver Setup->Interface to NMEA IN/NMEA Out

In GPSNavX GPS panel Settings drawer select the port KeySerial1, Rate 4800, Type Garmin

Seems to me this would be more affordable then Windows, A new Nav application or a new GPS receiver.

The Garmin Oregon does support NMEA spanner mode, but this requires the Windows spanner software be used. What it does it take the Garmin proprietary data and fabricate NMEA sentences to a virtual Windows com port.

If Garmin were to develop the spanner software for Mac then one could use the Garmin USB cable and GPSNavX or many other Mac titles that rely on NMEA data.

[MacSail]

There you go again. Let me renew my concern voiced in the original post:

GPSNavX is the ONLY GPS interfacing program I've used that REQUIRES the use of serial cables and hasn't kept up with the modern advantages of USB communication over a huge range of puck and handheld devices.

Hence: GPSNavX = Legacy Product. [insert sarcastic comment about Mac OS 8 & Classic users because that is what NavX and ENC users are putting up with]

Recommending that someone purchases a serial cable necessitates the additional purchase of yet another OEM cable from the manufacturer of the device -- when is the last time you opened a GPS that had a native serial port? Then that requires you to install 3rd party unsupported Mac/Serial drivers that could very easily not work as of the next OSX update.

I don't trust the technology behind such a kludgy hodgepodge of add-ons and hope-for-the-best drivers. Duct tape has it's place on every boat, but not in your navigation equipment.

[ebgb]

GPSNavX is the ONLY GPS interfacing program I've used that REQUIRES the use of serial cables and hasn't kept up with the modern advantages of USB communication over a huge range of puck and handheld devices.

when is the last time you opened a GPS that had a native serial port?

eh??

just about every marine gps system going has one, in fact I'm struggling to think of one (outside of a few handhelds) that has USB only, so the argument doesn't really stack up to me
furuno, lowrance, koden, humminbird, standard horizon all deliver their gps data via a serial interface. Hand hleds are the only ones that have gone solely USB, and the fault there is often that the gps manufacturers haven't written drivers to run on the mac OS

and seeing as there hasn't been a mac since last century with serial ports, you need a cable

go buy a shiny new PC laptop and PC software... you'll need a USN/serial cable there too as nearly all modern PC's have binned serial ports as well



or am I missing totally the arguement here

[kphinney]

Funny. Not constructive, but funny.

I checked: The last Mac to be manufactured with a serial port was in 1998.

Perhaps you can find an old Wallstreet.

[kphinney]

just about every marine gps system going has one, in fact I'm struggling to think of one (outside of a few handhelds) that has USB only, so the argument doesn't really stack up to me

A few handhelds? Allow me to help you in your struggle by referring you to GPSNavX's third post:

USGlobalSat MR350, BU303, BU353 USB
Zenstar USB
Any Bluetooth that supports NMEA-0183
Any Garmin that supports NMEA-0183 (requires PC interface cable and Keyspan adapter)
Magellan ColorTRAK and SporTRAK, GPS 300 series, Meridian series

And MacSail's 2nd post:

Magellan eXplorist (forgot the model number)
Garmin Oregon 200
Garmin Colorado 400c
Magellan Triton 500
Magellan Triton 2000
Garmin USB receiver (forgot the model number)
Bushnell ONIX 200

I haven't had a single non-USB marine GPS in about 10 years.

MarkH,

or am I missing totally the arguement here

Perhaps. I wouldn't post if I saw it as a nonconstructive topic or argument. My take is that GPSNavX requires add-ons, drivers, and cables to work with modern handheld GPS units. A few weeks back I upgraded to OSX 10.6 and all of a sudden GPSNavX wouldn't recognize my USB receiver. Obviously some 3rd party driver fell out of support under this OS. I've been using the same receiver for over 3 years and it is quite literally hardwired into my cabin top. I have a spare - same thing. Then I opened my other Mac GPS programs and they work flawlessly.

I came here looking to see if others were having this problem and I'm not sure if they are or not. Regardless, I'm not willing to trust my boat and life to a program that relies on old tech when there are now many more to choose from. At least a lot more than when I originally purchased GPSNavX 3-4 years back. In fact, with a dual boot MacBook Pro the possibilities are very extensive.

For me it's a no brainer. When it comes down to it you can either:
1) Continue to use GPSNavX and hope that the unsupported drivers stay available and working AND buy a particular GPS receiver or handheld that works with it,

OR 2) buy a new program that allows for the use of the modern USB communication protocol.

I'm playing it safe and learning a new program that works with all of my gear. If, in 4 years, that program falls behind I'll move on again.

That little stunt where GPSNavX stopped working cost me 2 days in delays, a dozen trips to different stores, and a slew of GPS units. Fortunately I was able to return the units, but I learned that it's better to have a program that works with modern gear or at least gear that doesn't require waiting around for a specific unit to be shipped across the US and then south of the boarder.

[ebgb]

from that list, any garmin with NMEA-0183, the magellan gps 300 - 330 series (including MAP versions), Meridien series all have rs232/serial output not usb - so you need a serial/usb adapter which you would need regardless - even with mega bucks PC software

ok, generic puck type USB receivers plug straight in, if they don't work immediately with GPSNavx that is down to the hardware manufactures lack of drivers for the Mac, not a failing in GPSNavX surely??

the MR350, BU303 and 353 all work, you don't need a cable adapter, they plug into usb and away they go. If they don't work in 10.6 anymore, they won't work with anything in 10.6 - the issue is a driver one from thegps manufacturer not a GPSNavX one, which I guess means that those GPS's modules can then be lumped together as legacy products also???

still don't understand the issues. you have a 3 stage system, 1 - gps device, 2 the mac and then 3 GPSNavX

the third relies soley on the first and second communicating with each other, failure to do so can hardly be blamed on GPSNavX

go and buy a brand new PC and 5 grands worth of MaxSea or OLEX, you will have the same issues - cable adapters to connect gps serial data to pc and a reliance on drivers/adapters if they are USB driven. Try plug the latest whizzy garmin hand held into a PC and maxsea and it won't work unless you change the settings on the garmin - that hardly makes maxsea a legacy product

I sense you've got a grudge

That little stunt where GPSNavX stopped working.....

I have fitted countless gps systems to boats, from just about every manufacturer going, and still do, my macbook/GPSNavX is used to plug into them to check the NMEA data through a cheap as cheaps serial to USB adpater (£3 - ebay) and as yet have to find a system that hasn't just worked

some GPS units may default to a non standard communication protocol ie garmin, takes seconds to go through the menus on that device to switch it to NMEA and off it goes

In essence the only 'add-on' GPSNavX needs is a cable adapter to convert serial data to USB due to the lack of rs232 ports on a mac. can't see that it needs any drivers, drivers are ened for the mac to communicate with a device, if there's no drivers to do that you won't find any mac software that will communicate with the device, so that I guess by your logic makes the mac itself a legacy device

[Jade]

It seems to me that the marine industry standards for electronic communication protocols (NMEA) are at the heart of this issue.

Yes, NMEA 0183 is a serial protocol that is well past its "best by" date. The marine industry is slowly phasing this out and replacing it with its latest standard, NMEA 2000, which, by the way, is not directly USB compatible either.

You see, I want my gps units to talk to my VHF DSC radio, AIS, autopilot, and instruments! not just my Mac. And these devices do not have USB ports. Instead, they use the NMEA protocols.

I definitely do not want to have to keep my Mac turned on because of a dedicated USB gps to navigate safely. That would introduce a single point of failure in my nav setup.

So, I am really glad that GPSNavX and MacENC adhere to the NMEA protocol.

[kphinney]

I sense you've got a grudge

You don't even warrant a reply kid. You've obviously forsaken reading for your own Mac-centric albification as you've not addressed one single issue and continue to rant on the benefits of Mac vs.... well, nothing.

You haven't even considered that there are alternatives better suited to those how do instead of install and have made no attempt to offer constructive assistance.

You are a mechanic. I am a sailer. I appreciate that you can knock together a nav system, but like a faulty program, I wouldn't want you on a 2200 mile trip out of sight of land.

I don't cary a grudge. At least not against GPSNavX and it's developers. That would be clear if your read my posts. To the contrary, I've been a long time user and recently switched to their sister company's product.

I do, however, take fault with those such as yourself who try to cajole and prod people into a "one-size fits all" solution.

[bobetter]

That was really over the line. You have pretty much proved your lack of understanding of both computers and computer navigation in the real world (NMEA) with your non-sensical posts. The "Kid" was actually trying to help you. Blaming your equipment failure on a "Stunt" by GPSNavX is the best, most people would have immediately just gone back to 10.5 and gone sailing. You chose to flail about throwing money and time at a problem you didn't understand.

.....if you really pride yourself on being a sailor, you should really replace your avatar with one flying a properly trimmed jib, that one is embarrasing,

[cyberhusky]

My take is that GPSNavX requires add-ons, drivers, and cables to work with modern handheld GPS units. A few weeks back I upgraded to OSX 10.6 and all of a sudden GPSNavX wouldn't recognize my USB receiver. Obviously some 3rd party driver fell out of support under this OS. I've been using the same receiver for over 3 years and it is quite literally hardwired into my cabin top. I have a spare - same thing. Then I opened my other Mac GPS programs and they work flawlessly.

See my post above where I already wrote that perhaps Snow Leo is the culprit and not GPSNavX.

When I updated my iMac at home with OS X 10.6.(1) nearly all of my USB needed devices stopped working!

My Canon PIXMA MP800R printer scanner needed new drivers. The funny thing is that the old app for printing CDROMs/DVDs worked the latest one not!

My Canon PowerShot G10 and Canon EOS 400 (Rebel XT?? in the USA) crashes when importing pictures over USB

The Canon FD4000 negative, dia, APS scanner stopped working with Photoshop CS2. Though it works with VueScan.

Elgatos EyeTV Hybrid TV receiver stopps working!


My biggest problem is the GEMALTO electronic signing usb stick, which I need to do any online banking, just isn't recognized anymore!

I do have a lot of other USB devices scanners, Canon PIXMA 9500 Pro which I haven't tried yet.

And as my iMac is in-house I can't use it with any GPS device I have.

In my eyes it's the update to Snow Leopard that caused many USB drivers to crash! I don't think it's GPSNavX to blame here.

That's the reason I didn't upgrade my MacBook yet or my MSI Hackintosh!


Regards,

Manou

[kphinney]

Amazing.
Reply and flame all you want; you have firmed my resolve to can GPSNavX and I'm out of here. Yes - consider yourself the "winner" in a battle that only you intended to fight, brought forth by your own delusions. I came for assistance, yet out of a dozen posts only the developer has tried to assist and a handful of others only put forth quips like "I sense you've got a grudge" or "if you really pride yourself on being a sailor" or my personal favorite which mixes the reality (*my admitted lack of understanding: the reason I'm here by the way*) with snide remarks "You have pretty much proved your lack of understanding of both computers and computer navigation in the real world (NMEA) with your non-sensical posts." Sling sh!t all you want. I won't be here to read it.

Feel the joy in your hand. You cost GPSNavX a customer, and most probably Fugawi also.


ps - I like my avatar and it's floppy jib. Likewise, your avatar is an adequate representation of your persona.